Dr. Bruce King (interview) (Oral History)

Dr. Bruce King (interview)

Larkin, Sean

Leone, Faye

47 mins

Coverage: 1978-1997
Topics discussed : (side A): Time at WestConn; 1978; 1997; Basic Studies program here when he came; worked part; time in that program; Taught about 20 years before coming to WestConn; Started Math Clinic; intended to be used by basic studies students; most who came weren't the ones who really needed it though; some from advanced courses came primarily; took it over after 1986 after sabbatical; Taught basic level and grad level courses; Geometry; Bob Hoburg and Jim Oliver; chairmen of Math department when he was there; Computer Science; hard to hire teachers for it during 1980s; taught some lower level courses; Student changes; no significant changes; Westside campus; came before it opened (opened early 1980s); decisions on who would move there; Business school was always going to move there; math department had opportunity to move there, but didn't; math department would have been able to have better offices; Higgins Hall offices; Split in department; math taught basically at Midtown, computer science at Westside; Feelings about Westside; enjoys the campus; Faculty in math department; hasn't grown much; about 11; 12 full; time members and always cohesive; they always got along really well; Bob Hoburg; was chairman for 19 years; knew had to organize the department; Jim Oliver; followed Hoburg as chair of the department; was a nice guy; could be intimidating to people who don't know him (especially students); Other departments; didn't really know much about other departments; Chemistry department; Dr. Paul Hines and Ron Gordano; department shattered when Gordano was killed in auto accident; WestConn presidents; came first under Bersi; left under Roach; takes special person to be able to lead a university; respected all, but didn't know any personally; Problems between faculty and administration; have been problems in the past; Steven Feldman; had problems getting along with the faculty; National events and effects on WestConn; Gulf War and his son being called; didn't pay much attention to campus because more concerned about his son; Vietnam War; was over by time he got to WestConn; taught at a community college in NY at the time; Assassinations of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr.; WestConn atmosphere; quiet campus; "Blue collar college"; students and faculty not really involved in the university; should be a more residential college to promote university activities; Westside; Grasso Hall and plans for new dorm; plan originally to move entire university to that campus; environmental concerns also factor; not fan of two campus setup; Library; plans for renovation; build a "swing building" to house library temporarily; Parking; always been a problem since he was there; new library might consume part of the parking area; Renovations; Landscape at WestConn; likes the changes made so far at WestConn; Student Center; close to opening again; University Hall; Over head walkway; Background; grew up in Queens, NY; lived in upstate NY later; bachelor's and doctorate Albany State; Master's University of Buffalo; taught high school in upstate NY; later at Glens Falls community college; came to WestConn about 5 years after getting doctorate (side B): Final thoughts; enjoyed his time at WestConn; now teaches a high school class; time he and his wife spent in Buffalo.

1998

Universities and colleges--Faculty.

ms012_11_38_king

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;13;13
Unknown
I guess it was 19 years ago. In 1978. Yeah, so said, like, what kind of fields that you teach?

00;00;13;15 - 00;00;41;23
Unknown
Well, I came here originally. they had started Basic studies program, which I guess still exists, and so modified for. But at any rate, they wanted somebody to work part time, I guess half time in there. And then the other half of the assignment was to, to be determined, so to speak, based I suppose, and other things on who you are and what your background was.

00;00;41;26 - 00;01;14;28
Unknown
And when I came here, I was in my early forties and I had been teaching for 20 years. So I had done a lot of things and I think the first seven years, most of the first seven years I was here, there was a and clinic. So I basically I started which still operates and that originally was intended to be of service specifically to basic studies students.

00;01;15;00 - 00;01;40;13
Unknown
But as things are in this life, what happens is that the rich get richer and so on, and the students who tend to become the students who well, it wasn't the students who needed it most, who came for it that way. They had certain kinds of students who were, you know, driven to do well and, you know, more driven to do well.

00;01;40;15 - 00;02;06;10
Unknown
And so I would get students from calculus classes and pre-calculus and even more advanced courses like differential equations, who would come when it was expected that different kind of people would come. So at any rate, it didn't work out quite as it was originally intended. And then I went on sabbatical. So 1986 and after that someone else took it over.

00;02;06;12 - 00;02;41;06
Unknown
And I guess now they have a person who is essentially responsible, I think, for the clinic pretty much on a full time basis. And I guess she teaches at least one course of any rate. That's that was that that was her principal responsibility. And as time went by, it wasn't my principal responsibility was originally get my responsibility as a partially by responsibility, but I ended up doing other things Well, for example, I worked with students, which was for those first seven years also.

00;02;41;08 - 00;03;07;14
Unknown
So it was, yeah, But when I came back, the department was different and I guess assignments had been shifted around and I ended up doing some counseling. Yeah, I actually I tried, you know, an institution like this, it's often I don't want to say always, but it's often not a good idea to pursue. I'm sorry to hire people who have a narrow range of interests.

00;03;07;14 - 00;03;41;01
Unknown
You need people who are willing to do different things. And I tried hard to do that for a long time. So I taught courses in very basic level. But he also got some graduate courses in trying to find a regular course and be able to and you know, a lot of undergraduate courses. I had the opportunity to teach part of that, the courses because, the people who were running the department would find the Chairperson like he was brought over.

00;03;41;04 - 00;04;06;12
Unknown
And the after that came over was. Chairperson And they were open to the idea of people trying different things rather than having a specific narrow range of courses to teach. So I did a lot of different things, not only because I wanted to, but because they were open to that sort of thing and always had some sort of customer service in the whole course as opposed to by the that level.

00;04;06;19 - 00;04;41;19
Unknown
So I remember in the early days it was very difficult to hire computer scientists to teach computer science courses. So what happened was that there was there were there were a number of us who basically tried to bootstrap ourselves and, you know, learn enough computer science so we could teach the lower level courses which would free up people I'd get jobs for who was still here, of course, and Rohnert Park was to teach the more advanced courses they were proposing, specifically computer science.

00;04;41;21 - 00;05;09;19
Unknown
And that was kind of fun to, you know, to try to do something different. I'm not sure how good it was for the students, but this one for the actually in the department is about 13 people that probably were at one time and other maybe about eight of us who did that, you know, taught us 100 and maybe one or two other courses just because there was a need and there weren't enough to get, you know, you couldn't hire computer science people to do it.

00;05;09;21 - 00;05;38;14
Unknown
And then, of course, the supply of computer science prepared people changed. And nowadays, for example, it's it's possible for a place like Western to not only hire a computer scientist, but even insist that they have a Ph.D. in computer science before they come. So it's dramatically different from what it was in the early eighties. So I think it comes down to really they they didn't need me to do computer science anymore.

00;05;38;17 - 00;06;07;15
Unknown
So but it was fun and I learned a lot in the process. And you're how how's has West Ham changed? I mean, like, you know, like the student base, you know, how it is is different, especially for a two to I don't think I see a significant difference. But in terms of I do think it was when I first came in basic studies program, it was a distinct program.

00;06;07;17 - 00;06;39;09
Unknown
And so essentially you had the regular program and then the basic studies program for other students. And those things have been changed now in such a way that I guess the what I guess students who don't meet the normal interest requirements that I quoted, I think that's a I think it's an inherent to the acronym. But the point is those people are merging with regular students in all places.

00;06;39;11 - 00;06;59;21
Unknown
And I suspect that's, first of all, better for them from the point of view that they're not different from everybody else and and they're not just matter of fact, in most other ways. I mean, they do they probably are about as successful at the same rate as other students. And if there's a difference, it's not a large difference.

00;06;59;21 - 00;07;44;06
Unknown
And I think at this point, that program does merge with radio and that idea. So I think that's one big change that we no longer have this clear distinction between regular students and basic studies students. Beyond that, I don't know. I mean, I don't see an awful lot of difference otherwise, I well, of course, I was here before the West Side campus was was in use, so I really forget the exact reason, But I think it was happening to maybe one when we you know, they had to make some decisions about who would move over to the West Side campus.

00;07;44;09 - 00;08;19;11
Unknown
I think it was assumed for the first time that the business school or the school, but it was also clear that was only the white people in that building, you know, more and more programs and the metropolitan community, for whatever reasons, had the opportunity to move over there. And I remember that there really wasn't an awful lot of opposition, at least I believe there was, for example, the office space that was available to me that was in the basement of their office, which is a pretty dreadful place that they were.

00;08;19;14 - 00;08;45;02
Unknown
So, you know, I mean, it's it's dusty and I understand they have fences down there with the dust around some of that was out. There are people with asthma problems that it was just a kind of grinding place. There was no privacy. If you had the students about something, you know, there were the cubicles were all open overhead and it just wasn't conducive and not a good place to meet the students.

00;08;45;04 - 00;09;08;13
Unknown
So when we had the chance to move on to the west Side, most of us were anxious to go. And, and I think even now it's like my guess is that most people think it was still a good idea when most things developed over the years. And it seems now that most of the best courses are for mid-term and most of the computer science courses of Westlake.

00;09;08;16 - 00;09;32;12
Unknown
Yeah, for the most part. So the department is kind of split in terms of where to start. And I don't know if that's good. I think that's just that that's a fact of life that to to get to the university, all those people. And so you know for me the West Side campus was it was it was a great opportunity.

00;09;32;12 - 00;09;54;14
Unknown
I like being over there. And to this day, I still find it a kind of friendly place to be, which is unusual from friendly, you know, new place and, you know, new state. 100 years ago, I was I was in an urban area and the old school was downtown, and they opened up the $2 million campus at the far edge of town.

00;09;54;17 - 00;10;17;23
Unknown
And it was a pretty concrete block. And then they had about five brothers sitting on this block. And every everybody who went there thought it was forced and very, very and perhaps it wasn't the beginning. But of course, as the years go by, things grow up and you get used to it. But that's part of the point is at the beginning, a new campus.

00;10;17;23 - 00;10;37;25
Unknown
So I think that's very forbidding to people. And to me, the West Side never looked like that. Maybe, maybe it's because of winter traffic. But I just look at your office window and see deer. And in recent years there have been wild turkeys, you know, And those ones, that's know, I always regarded it as a nice place to live.

00;10;37;27 - 00;11;02;16
Unknown
The I don't know. How would you describe the faculty? I mean, I assume that the faculty back in, you know, earlier when you first started teaching here is probably a smaller, maybe more cohesive unit. And maybe over the years it's grown. You feel a change in there? I don't I don't really think it's much larger than what I think it's larger at all.

00;11;02;18 - 00;11;32;04
Unknown
My recollection is that there was 13 full time members of the department that I think and if that number was not correct, that was close to that like 11 or 12. I think it would be fair to say that the this department has always been relatively cohesive. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, one of the one of the, one of the best parts about working here for those 20 years was the fact that it was with a congenial group of people who knew how to get along.

00;11;32;06 - 00;12;01;21
Unknown
That's nothing for differences among us. But with very little exceptions, people knew how to you know, what to say, how to avoid that kind of counterproductive, open hostility, taking complaints in some of the classes, not necessarily here, but an enormous, steady group of people that worked closely together. And somehow we knew how to avoid those kinds of things.

00;12;01;24 - 00;12;26;06
Unknown
And frankly, I think it was part of the cause of the atmosphere. Well, it's like a lot of it's the leadership from the top. I mean, that's one of the ways. But over 19 years and five was just that kind of day. I don't want to say it's it's too much. Well, they say it's trite to use a phrase like one happy family.

00;12;26;07 - 00;12;55;21
Unknown
I think that's not quite true. But we know how to organize a department where people got along, shared responsibility. We traded favors, whatever, you know, would fill in for each other when there was a need to do so. And General Oliver succeeded, but was a very strong leader. Giving sometimes intimidates people who don't know him, but he's one of the nicest and most thoughtful people I know.

00;12;55;23 - 00;13;24;27
Unknown
And I know how you have to be careful. But, you know, for some reason Jimmy has this knack for kind of scaring people, especially the. But if you get to know him, he's really well. As I say, he's just one of the most thoughtful and kind people I know. so the point is that with people like that leading the department, we'd have to be a pretty ugly group for you to have difficulty getting what they set the tone.

00;13;24;29 - 00;13;47;11
Unknown
And I it was just it to me was a good example of a group of people who knew how to submerge their individual aspirations for the sake of the group, you know, for the sake of making, you know, getting the job done. And I, I it was it's one of the best experiences of my life to be able to work in that kind of a department.

00;13;47;11 - 00;14;16;21
Unknown
And it never really changed in character, which is saying something. I actually think about the fact that the department has two different groups of people, most people in computer science, people who tend to work on different campuses, and yet it was at least up until the time I left, always this general willingness to get along and share responsibility and get the job done, try to understand what their problems are.

00;14;16;24 - 00;14;48;07
Unknown
So I left a clean I'm happy to come and I left a happy that was that way. And although I can't say I will move, you know, you will see people in other departments in a superficial way. I love to talk to the machine, but I never really knew much about the internal workings of the department. It's quite obvious that some of the partners had a strong sense of cohesion in your work.

00;14;48;10 - 00;15;19;28
Unknown
The chemistry department, for example, has always struck me that way of, you know, Paul Haynes and Rangitoto and microchip design. I mean, these things are always people who worked very hard for the State Department. And of course, when you run your thought it was, I thought that was kind of a shattering experience for a group. That was that was the height of the doing the level I don't know.

00;15;19;28 - 00;15;39;07
Unknown
I think I remember hearing about it. I think I guess about three years. But yeah, I remember before I was here, I was on the street writing with the Department of Chemistry Department chairperson for probably five or six years. I believe you served two or three terms. It might have been longer than that run maybe chair for year.

00;15;39;09 - 00;16;00;10
Unknown
But he was you know, he was a relatively young man. He was probably still in his forties and just had an auto accident on the way home at the time. And I suppose I don't want to get on a soapbox. My recollection is that he didn't have a suit that day and that that was a major factor in anything that happened to you.

00;16;00;13 - 00;16;38;10
Unknown
So. So anyway, I guess the answer to the question is I, I suspect that there are other departments you know, when you say a productive as a group, the chemistry department, people like to say think a professor. I can't remember. The first one was crazy and there was where they did they were and I guess they were all different types of people.

00;16;38;16 - 00;17;03;13
Unknown
And I guess the first one, first person, the last one is Roach. And, you know, I mean, this is ridiculous, but believe that at the moment I can think of in the Middle of the festival and just no, but I actually I think that that kind of just wrote you for many years. I said that it takes a special kind of teacher to teach junior high school kids.

00;17;03;15 - 00;17;37;27
Unknown
You, not anybody do not trust anybody can do that. Well, I think it takes the same kind of person. Some you know, I say it takes a special person to be the you know, the lead person in the university accept the fact that the buck stops with him. Everything flows in his direction or direction, for that matter, and somehow survived that can feel, you know, feel not swamped by all of the responsibility and work that comes your way.

00;17;37;29 - 00;18;21;09
Unknown
So I don't know. I mean, I respect all of them, but also from a distance, I didn't know any of this well. But I just know the job is extremely demanding, probably very stressful. And I think that's one reason why a lot of teachers hide in the classroom where you can just do your thing in your own little world and not worry about all those administrative details So well, being a history major, I remember last year of I guess there was kind of kind of a I don't know how to describe it, but I guess the president in the hierarchy of the West Coast was about to cut jobs and stuff.

00;18;21;09 - 00;18;39;25
Unknown
And I remember I remember all the history professors trying to rally support. There was kind of a lot of tension between the two groups. I wonder if there's anything like that between, well, there have been problems between the faculty and the president that from time to time. And of course, now, now my mind is starting to kick in in the middle.

00;18;40;01 - 00;19;06;10
Unknown
Steve Feldman, is the president. The face of the league for quite a while? Was something close to ten years. I mean, about ten years of my 20 running here. And, you know, it's like anything else. Steve Feldman was a very capable man in many ways, but he had more trouble getting along with the faculty. I think at first he did and probably got it to work as well.

00;19;06;13 - 00;19;37;26
Unknown
And but I don't know much about those things. I guess from an internal I'm the kind of guy that's kind of I guess I kind of hostility in the first place. And it's a lot easier to not get involved in this kind of scrapes anyway. I really don't know much about the military. Little to do with any national trends that is like something like the Gulf War or something.

00;19;37;26 - 00;20;05;28
Unknown
You know, people really, you know, I don't I don't remember the Gulf War having a significant effect on what happened on this campus. But that may be because I was tied up with my own problems, not problems or concerns I had. I have a son who at that time was in the Marine Reserves and he was of five.

00;20;05;28 - 00;20;35;04
Unknown
So his unit was called up and he had to make a decision about whether he was going to go to war or not. So I was a letting, you know, a lot of young men did. And of course, most of them weren't. But while he was, you know, and this is one of those things, but at the same time, he a woman and, you know, so on and and I think I was more concerned about him and what might happen to him and what was going on here.

00;20;35;07 - 00;21;02;25
Unknown
I don't really know. I do remember that when I came here in 1978, that was not too many years after. Well, I, I was teaching at community college in New York City in the early seventies. And this was a time when young men were in it involved in a full time, you know, involved as a full time student at the college.

00;21;02;28 - 00;21;26;10
Unknown
And I don't know if there was any other criterion beyond that. Then the you know, they weren't drafted at that point. So, of course, what happened is that had large numbers of young men who really didn't want to go to Vietnam, which was quite understandable to all within the role. But they were very their students because their heart just wasn't in it.

00;21;26;13 - 00;21;51;13
Unknown
And I mean, that was such a common phenomenon at the time that when I think about the Gulf War, I don't recall anything remotely much different circumstances would change. Obviously, some of the young men went through more than a few lost their lives. But it wasn't it wasn't the same as it had been 20 years earlier. And nowhere near as profound.

00;21;51;15 - 00;22;17;17
Unknown
You know, I think I think probably See, this goes back yeah, I was going to say the most significant events that I can remember were the assassination of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King in the same summer as I recall. But that was ten years before I came here. So that was that was almost mind boggling. You had the feeling the country was going over the edge at that point.

00;22;17;20 - 00;22;55;16
Unknown
I think it was three major assassinations in about five years, pretty close to us. And bang, bang. Yeah, that's an interesting figure of speech on the day. But, you know, in very close succession and you had the feeling that things were swirling out of control. And I just don't remember anything. I should have been wanting the disruption of that sense that you might be losing hope, that things might get, you know, getting taken totally chaotic and or anything like that at all.

00;22;55;19 - 00;23;17;29
Unknown
You I think it's been a relatively pleasant I feel the same way being I've only been here a little more almost two years. It was just seemed just very quiet. Well, of course, there's something to be said for that in a way. I mean, I you know, I realize that young people obviously have to make that point just like the rest of us.

00;23;18;01 - 00;23;42;22
Unknown
And, you know, but you're right, we tend to do it in somewhat different ways. But I mean, when I think about, you know, the kind of out of control situation that you kind of in the last couple of days, I would like to see it come to that here. And there have to be ways to blow off yourself to write about that.

00;23;42;24 - 00;24;30;24
Unknown
So I think both and overall, yeah, I think what closed door or quiet campus, like you said, you just do your own thing. You just have a perspective of the fact that I think that had something to do with something. You know, when I interacted with people a week as I came from upstate New York and we still have a presence up there, I described this place to other people as a blue collar kind of And, you know, obviously that's an oversimplification, but it probably captures something significant about the place because I feel like it's a place where people live at home and save money in many cases and they come to school because they're

00;24;30;24 - 00;24;55;08
Unknown
commuting to work also. In fact, one of the most amazing things about this place is the number of students who are full plate students and working full time as well. I mean, that's almost beyond belief. But, you know, the love that some so many people every year have, you know that for a fact. And, you know, jobs here and after, you know, just walk the street to a job.

00;24;55;10 - 00;25;16;17
Unknown
Would you ever, ever like to see a I don't know, ever like to see what's going coast change in any ways. Like in the future, perhaps, you know, if your personal taste would be like a larger canvas or with technologically a bit more grassroots approach. Well, I don't know. I you know, we use the word cohesion several times before referring to the partners.

00;25;16;20 - 00;25;38;18
Unknown
But I think the one thing that sometimes is a problem here is not so much cohesion among students because of the fact that it's not a residential school so much. And I think that troubles me a little bit. I you know, there's so many people of necessity come here from a distance and go home afterwards and have a little stake in the place.

00;25;38;20 - 00;26;02;14
Unknown
You know, in emotional terms, they haven't made it. And, you know, they don't come for social events. And this, of course, is true that all of the students but the faculty, I live in the military. So, I mean, I would go home at the end of the day, the number of times know, I would drive back 20 miles for a social event here or, you know, a lecture speech or a dramatic reduction or very few and far between.

00;26;02;16 - 00;26;27;23
Unknown
And I think I missed out on something for having lived too far away from. So know, I guess there's no question there that I think if anything I would I would like to see the college move in the direction of being a more residential college just because I think it would improve the sense of community among the students in the social.

00;26;27;25 - 00;26;48;24
Unknown
I don't know exactly. I think it's getting better, but I think it's going to be I know one for is going to reconcile. I'm not sure that will help because it's the West side rate. But nevertheless, I would agree with that. But, you know, I thought it was worth a double, at least double the size of the previous one.

00;26;48;26 - 00;27;18;09
Unknown
And then I don't know exactly. And I think that one of the guys that I'll address right here, I suddenly, you know, at one time in the entire college was supposed to move up there. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that. But apparently not enough of the land can be developed. But it was also, you know, my my recollection and this goes back to the timing and especially the president of the college.

00;27;18;09 - 00;27;44;07
Unknown
So that would be like, you know, that 1988 year. But in the it had been decided, I guess, that they were going to build on the west side and the long term plan had been to build the entire entire new campus and basically available at this point, maybe not completely, but certainly, you know, to make the West side yet major site.

00;27;44;10 - 00;28;14;07
Unknown
And my my recollection and I guess you have to talk with something like her Janet Cruzan, who's been here for a longer than I would know. But my recollection was that, first of all, at that time there were well, let's put it this way. Did you are colleges who were not anxious to see other colleges prosper at what they see as their expense?

00;28;14;07 - 00;28;37;27
Unknown
You know, for example, of college, a loss of students to college, be that certainly college aid is going to do some in some ways to resist the growth of big or not maybe going to, but it's at least a possibility. So my recollection is that in the summer that it was that there were other colleges or not going to see state money spent to build a whole campus of West Side.

00;28;37;29 - 00;28;57;19
Unknown
And if I remember the story correctly, that was that the last place was supposed to be was about the size of a water main. That's sort of the West Side campus. You know, obviously, if you restrict the size of a watermelon with the size, you know, that would be the number of buildings that can be served by the water system.

00;28;57;21 - 00;29;25;21
Unknown
And so a deal was struck when Percy was here that the West Side campus would be developed, but that the downtown campus would not be there. And from that point on, it was decided that this would be a two campus university. And I think the estimate at that time was something like for at least the next 35 years, know, that's something like that of.

00;29;25;24 - 00;30;01;15
Unknown
So I forget the question are you well I mean that you were a history major. Yeah. And I think that's a bit frustrating that I heard it might be able to fill you in on that. I mean, it is interesting whether we like it or not. I mean, these things are not only you not only have to be concerned about the environment and, you know, what does it cost to put up a building, But it's politics as well, definitely, for better or for worse, would you like to to I don't like it to campus so I really don't.

00;30;01;17 - 00;30;29;15
Unknown
I, I would if there had been enough room to expand the campus here as time went by, I think that would have been a better choice. But it appears as if, you know, we're kind of like a landlocked way of life here. Not much unless we go straight up, which some universities. And then I guess what the University of Pittsburgh was to have a tower for.

00;30;29;17 - 00;30;55;13
Unknown
I don't I mean, it may not be the entire kids, but it's it's certainly a large part of it. I have yet to see how they're going to work that out. Are they going to hope that that would now be sort of I don't know. I guess what what I think the plan is to put up a temporary, what they call limbo and for the library holders to swim building.

00;30;55;16 - 00;31;29;23
Unknown
Then they're going to put an addition onto the present library. Well, consumer products doesn't quite move up, which is why that's why the prices are rising. People without the parking garage, nothing would have happened. I yeah. Parking was really well forever. And the faculty, students alike, it didn't make any difference. And was always and ever since I've been here and the parking has always been at a premium that parking garage has kept a great deal.

00;31;29;25 - 00;31;55;17
Unknown
I guess people still don't like to use it. It's not the choice. First choice. People still battle for the parking spaces over there. If you have to, or on the street at those streets outside, you definitely have a choice. Well, I guess I guess, you know, the new the expanded library is supposed to consume part of the present parking lot, whether it's the student area or the faculty area.

00;31;55;17 - 00;32;17;08
Unknown
I really don't know. I'll give you a guess what it probably is. And then when it's finished, the idea is that they can move all the holdings back into the library and the Swindell will become something else. And then I thought they're going to renovate like other buildings, like the dorms or something. I think there's a plan to renovate things, which I think is there.

00;32;17;09 - 00;33;09;08
Unknown
There definitely is in some parts of the white hall here near there as well. And during the winter time you feel that some days are cold in there, that it's just going to march or something to that effect on the buildings, that all new windows in this building. So goodness. Yeah. As I recall, sometimes there are though I tried I must I think this is actually a pretty old building and I think they've done a pretty good job in keeping track of what's most needed building to be sure that it doesn't fall down or is creeping into windows and what I think is some years ago was crucial because otherwise the school was uninhabitable for.

00;33;09;11 - 00;33;33;08
Unknown
yes, yes. Green Well, I don't you possibly wouldn't know about this is a of I don't remember the exact title I needed, but it's definitely known as a setting. It was the chief engineer for, you know, for those kinds of things. And Dan retired last year, although I suspect he's probably back here part time as a consultant.

00;33;33;10 - 00;34;03;02
Unknown
But you know, I, I had occasion to talk to start a number of times. And when you take an old campus like this where the buildings were never there was never any attempt to, as far as I could see, to make the buildings cohesive in terms of architectural styles of the dining halls. Did everything you could try to make this campus more, you know, more attractive.

00;34;03;02 - 00;34;25;13
Unknown
And as time went by and I mean I don't know who originated the idea at the time was certainly a major figure in implementing that plan to get through the process. I probably had a difference with that over. So you have a more something that's a little bit more nearly conventional acquired in that. That was nice, but I used up all the little things.

00;34;25;13 - 00;34;48;13
Unknown
I know he made use of copper as on various buildings. He's also made use. I don't know how to describe it, but if you look at it, there's some sort of white facing at the top of the white brick walls and the like. I have to go around and look at it now to see if I'm remembering correctly.

00;34;48;15 - 00;35;14;16
Unknown
But I know he did a lot of little things to try to make the place look more cohesive. And I think there's clearly a limit to what you do to make this campus look more attractive without spending billions of dollars. But I think John did a great job with what he had here. Part of I'm sure he had a great deal to do with that.

00;35;14;18 - 00;35;38;05
Unknown
Yeah, of course. I guess the job was only half done by the time he left, but he certainly had to have been involved in its in the planning, the expansion. I understand that's open now. Well it's very close. Very close. I mean they got doors and windows up. Yeah. I did. I still have access to an email account here and I did read that there's a groundbreaking sometime to make.

00;35;38;08 - 00;35;55;21
Unknown
I think it's May 11 for the library. I think it is. I remember it around in May. I was that I think it's for the that's the groundbreaking. No, wait a minute. I don't know if it is, but it is going to be some sort of ceremony. And then the student said, result of the help, so to speak.

00;35;55;21 - 00;36;16;22
Unknown
And I think this is this is brilliant. You know, and I mean, I was going to say, if you've been here even for years, I think you've never had access to this. You know, it's always been out of it, missing in action unless you call the university all across the street. And what have what will they do with that?

00;36;16;24 - 00;36;42;14
Unknown
I don't know. I mean, I wonder if they just completely turn it all over at the offices, maybe students or faculty offices. And actually, that's probably not a bad building, but they need to probably it's across it's across a busy and highly traveled street, so it makes it a little awkward. Yeah. Yeah. And the funny thing is, you know, I've seen these overhead, these overhead walkways.

00;36;42;17 - 00;37;06;01
Unknown
You'll find this in a lot of places there, and people somehow don't want to use those. They'd rather run a run between close to one of them on Route 22 over in New York State that's used by I can't really say that was sort of one of those exclusive private schools, but their buildings are on one side of Route 22 and their athletic fields are on the other side.

00;37;06;03 - 00;37;28;29
Unknown
It's sort by growing, I believe I see that, too. I know I have a as a as a kid. I know my parents always brought me up to promote that. I remember. I know, I know. I was a kid before talking about I can't remember the name it, but it's in Portland or near Portland. And I drove up with the other day and I looked at it wondering, I wonder if anybody wants to this that.

00;37;29;01 - 00;37;49;27
Unknown
Here's another one I saw one many years ago at Memorial University in Philly, in Canada, and in order to I mean, the problem, of course, is the usual one that at one point they had a student killed by car. And so they built this walkway over, you know, a street that had, I think, four lanes with a median down the middle.

00;37;50;00 - 00;38;14;26
Unknown
And then they put a fence down the median to try to prevent students from walking across. And when we got there, which was in 1977, I said to visit relatives. And what had happened is that students had somebody I say students, somebody at home. He was trained in a fence so they could walk across. You know, they just didn't want to use that walkway.

00;38;14;28 - 00;38;40;01
Unknown
And I think I understand that. I suppose I would probably say that it does get rough if you're late for class or something. You know, walking up the stairs and going around down there takes a valuable time anyway. So I just I really I don't know. I'm talking perhaps too much and I'm not sure what questions are. You're supposed to be asking me here or what I'm supposed to know, I guess, is the wrap it up.

00;38;40;03 - 00;39;10;27
Unknown
I guess we should end with you in school. That's right. And you need to get your degree. wow. I grew up. Actually, I sent them from upstate New York. Yes, I sort of see myself that way. But actually, I grew up in New York City, in Queens County of Queens, and what I'll tell you is one of the memories I had of a long time ago, You know, I grew up in Queens, which is not exactly Manhattan, but it's it's a big city.

00;39;10;28 - 00;39;35;01
Unknown
It's talked about. That was blue collar, though. And my father was a carpenter. And I remember across the street, my name is Bernardo, who was a plumber, and there was a hermit who houses from our house who used to come out only at night. And I don't know, it was just kind of mixed neighborhood like that, at any rate, I didn't know anything about any place else.

00;39;35;03 - 00;40;11;19
Unknown
I used to go play ball in the schoolyard two blocks away, and when I was 12 years old, my mother and father drove from there into western Massachusetts to a place east of not east could see, I think it was called Garfield. They killed. At any rate, there were no interstates there. So they drove basically up Route seven through Danbury and I think maybe maybe I saw Pittsfield years after that.

00;40;11;21 - 00;40;33;22
Unknown
Anyway, the things I remember going through Danbury and liking its appearance very much, I was, you know, as a city kid, I thought it was really neat to find a small city that looked so attractive to you and whether that had anything to do with it or not, I don't know. But I know when I got out of high school four years later, I had no problem leaving New York City.

00;40;33;25 - 00;41;01;17
Unknown
And when I went, I went upstate to Albany State and I was still pretty young kids. I was I was still only 16 when I got up there. I never had an hour or an instant homesickness. I was like a bird made out of a cage. And, you know, so I worked all these states, got a bachelor's degree there, started teaching high school in upstate New York, and then, I don't know, two or three times I took a year off and did some graduate work.

00;41;01;17 - 00;41;34;12
Unknown
I ended up teaching for a couple of years in Syracuse, New York, got a masters degree in mathematics from Buffalo at the University of Buffalo, a resume high school teaching for a while and I taught in a community college in Glens Falls, New York, and another one in Schenectady. finished school. Doctor And indeed, as we call it, the vegetation you would expect to be dead.

00;41;34;15 - 00;42;05;11
Unknown
Nobody wanted to refer to this as dead people finished in Albany State and about five years after that, my early forties came here. So it kind of, you know, you can tell the university has been around. I, you know, I guess I have managed to sell a master's degree for Syracuse in the middle of all that. And I have probably taken courses in about five or six other places, and I still do that.

00;42;05;14 - 00;42;29;03
Unknown
I still have academic interests. And I find sometimes, you know, if you set your own goals, you it's too easy to set them aside, you know, for other things. And but if somebody if you if you go to a formal class and somebody says, do this for next week, it's a little more likely to get done. Definitely, because I, I my current interest is my interest is in statistics.

00;42;29;03 - 00;43;04;07
Unknown
And I was thinking about taking a course or two in one case or another. You can do a simple example. It's statistics courses. But I mean, I made just one week ago, I completed the if you know, school now. Yeah well yeah I that that was possibly a mistake. I don't know. Is the high school here? I is no point in getting ready for a high school year that advertised for someone to teach AP calculus.

00;43;04;10 - 00;43;27;03
Unknown
The regular teacher was pregnant and had to leave at the end of the first semester, and her replacement basically lasted only a month. And I wasn't doing too much. I was having I was enjoying myself, spending time with my kids, grandchildren and so on, doing things around the house. And I thought, well, I could probably help them do that if they don't have anybody else.

00;43;27;06 - 00;43;55;02
Unknown
So I went down to some and it turned I was really the only one that they had interviewed who could do the the AP calculus course. The problem was that they really needed five courses covered and I wasn't going to do that, but they really didn't want to split up the job. And too many people either. So in the end, they agreed to teach to other courses in the elderly too.

00;43;55;05 - 00;44;28;18
Unknown
And I don't know what to tell you, but I taught Algebra two for the first time exactly 40 years ago this September, and it's pretty hard to look on that with any Susie ism at all after the umpteenth time. So I guess what it comes down to is I have two courses that I don't enjoy very much and the calculus pins are fine kids and fun to be with, but most of all they focus on the job at hand and they're pretty good.

00;44;28;20 - 00;44;52;11
Unknown
So it's a mixed blessing. And I suppose like most things in life, you know, teaching school, high school wasn't one time when I thought I wanted to end my career the way it started, which was teaching high school. And I didn't really I mean, for that to happen, it just kind of happened this year. And it's a little sobering in a way, because I'd forgotten how silly 10th graders can be.

00;44;52;14 - 00;45;20;08
Unknown
You know, for one thing. And then maybe my you know, maybe my tolerance level isn't what it used to be either. I'm just not sure. But at any rate, I in some sense, I'm glad I did it, but I probably wouldn't do it again. Find other ways to amuse myself. But I guess to wrap it up is overall, your experience at least was enjoyable or positive?

00;45;20;10 - 00;45;41;23
Unknown
What could be negative? And certainly. sure. You look a funny thing at it. Look, let me talk. Let me. Yes, that was an analogy. Many years ago, my wife and I went to Buffalo because I wanted to do I wanted to do some relatively serious working mathematics. And buffalo, of course, as you probably know, has a rather unsavory.

00;45;41;23 - 00;46;11;15
Unknown
Well, what do you say? It's not it's not anybody's idea of a neat place to be, you know, And we went there sort of with that attitude, like somehow we'll survive it. And we were there, I guess, for two years and that and while we were there, I can only remember that was relatively difficult because not only the work, I mean, well, I had a department chairman who told me, for example, that if you were serious about doing mathematics, you'd be working 100 hours a week.

00;46;11;17 - 00;46;34;12
Unknown
And that's literally what he said. Well, what he meant was would spend it, you know, as if we were poor at the time. And I found myself in a situation where I was expected to really spend almost all of my waking moments and that for that. And I did that for two years. But I knew that in the two years that I've had it.

00;46;34;15 - 00;46;52;22
Unknown
Well, the funny thing is usually we realized that the only thing we could remember about Buffalo Springfield, for example, that there are certain restaurants we went to in Buffalo was a good city for that. It was a place where you could go out and, you know, like on a Friday night and get a good meal and it would be inexpensive.

00;46;52;22 - 00;47;15;13
Unknown
But I can remember in those days, in those years, you could get a good meal for about $2. There were places like that. There was a place called the Lake Hotel. I think it once that was not in view of any lake, but they had a smorgasbord. And if you got a smorgasbord, I believe it was before 530, the price was much less than what later on.

00;47;15;16 - 00;47;41;20
Unknown
So we did that quite a lot. And the point is that, you know, the things you remember are the pleasant things. We had to really struggle to remember what we liked about Buffalo. The only thing, even now that I can remember, other than what we've talked about, is that when you left the city, it took a long time to find the cattle, whereas before they find a cow in 5 minutes in any direction.

00;47;41;23 - 00;48;06;23
Unknown
So, so I mean even, I suppose even then that, you know, you can get away from the city rather quickly and in Buffalo that was very difficult. Well, so I mean the same thing probably is true, you know, about this place. I can look at the 19 years I've been here, and if I try real hard, I can probably remember some unpleasant things.

00;48;06;25 - 00;48;35;07
Unknown
But the truth is, those are the things you remember in any natural way. I remember the good people and there were a lot of those. I remember a lot ones you often don't remember the names, but you remember them and you know they're good memories, right? So I think a lot I'm happy to be gone, but I'm happy I was here.

00;48;35;09 - 00;48;39;18
Unknown
The good thing I think we get.