Jerry Lombardi - Interview (Oral History)

Jerry Lombardi - Interview

Lombardi, Jerry, Jr.

Janick, Herbert F.

Tape 1: 61:20 mins, Tape 2: 72 mins.

Jerry Lombardi describes downtown Danbury's redevelopment after the 1955 Still River flood along with Urban Renewal projects that he was apart of as Relocation Officer and Assistant Director (Danbury Redevelopment Agency) in the 1960's.

1986

Urban renewal--United States

Western Connecticut State University

See information on Danbury redevelopment, post-1955-flood.

Janick, Herbert F.

Lombardi, Jerry

00;00;00;08 - 00;00;26;18
Jerry Lombardi
Unusual activity programs. We used to make up an annual project activity chart, and we said to HUD or actually first HUD would say, we'll give you $1 million this year for the third of what they do, what they do for the book. They don't need to write a formula or how do you do that? Former where they decide based on what they know our needs were and what we could perform in a year.

00;00;26;18 - 00;00;43;14
Jerry Lombardi
And they say, oh, I can't give you three that you could spend 3000 a year anyhow. You know, I want take the appraisals and do what we want to do the first year. So they had to say, yeah, the next 40 questions, we got to be the fourth control. The council had said at the time they approved going to an MVP.

00;00;43;17 - 00;01;04;18
Jerry Lombardi
All right. But they would have proven MVP providers and think about making that the first priority with buying the land, the first money, the cost of what had to be used to buy land for people that was ready to go out of the city. And one of that is what was their priority from the first project we had to complete that we never did anything else and stop giving money to cities.

00;01;04;21 - 00;01;15;10
Jerry Lombardi
We would at least have completed the flexible. So our first project activity for HUD was to start acquiring land along the river for the flood control.

00;01;15;10 - 00;01;25;11
Jerry Lombardi
Or using the housing for their plans of what what they needed, what property they needed to acquire for them to do the work. But we started buying land.

00;01;25;13 - 00;01;49;29
Jerry Lombardi
From the river or from enterprise. we started on the, South side, a white thing that we hadn't acquired before. Well, people place was less of a piece. The store was very hard with all the parts and all that area was the first year we had to get them to continue that channel. So the river was getting what we built, right?

00;01;49;29 - 00;02;07;15
Jerry Lombardi
Because of it. Right? The city. Right. Because that's what we needed most, but also what we thought we could get. Well. Is a parkway better for what you want to do the first year. So I was it something within the project area. You said you were going to do one or something that would have a meaningful completion if you didn't do anything after that year?

00;02;07;15 - 00;02;21;11
Jerry Lombardi
Okay. So we said, okay. So the planning process is altogether different for how to do it. And that as almost self-contained, that's what they were. So we had to get a whole new way of thinking about how we acquired and what we had for the following.

00;02;21;11 - 00;02;27;11
Unknown
Year and what we could document, what the use of it. If we could get the movement for.

00;02;27;13 - 00;02;30;25
Jerry Lombardi
And so it became a sort of again, you know, you heard how can.

00;02;30;25 - 00;02;32;20
Herb Janick
You break it up in such a way.

00;02;32;20 - 00;02;52;03
Jerry Lombardi
That and then multiply it by saying, but we'll only give you 700,000 members of arguments will decide, well, what do you need, $700? I can't buy other piece of property with 700,000. I think by what would you rate in the quarter or whatever it might be if they were really convenient? Yeah. So, that process that we went for five years.

00;02;52;05 - 00;02;57;20
Herb Janick
Seven. And what did you acquire in each of those years? Do you remember how you worked out?

00;02;57;22 - 00;03;11;17
Jerry Lombardi
Yeah. we have we have pieces. For what? We've been a here the first year we spent $1 million, the second year in 950, the third year in the seven fourth year money in six.

00;03;11;20 - 00;03;25;22
Herb Janick
And it all came down to basically what we have now. Patriot drive, the River Street, got, you know, pieces that way. The flood control right? Yeah. But you, you did it in such a way that each year you never knew what you were going to get the next year.

00;03;25;24 - 00;03;39;18
Jerry Lombardi
That's right. So we did the first year or two, we we primarily were buying all factories down along the river. And we got our first shop, Fairfield processing Empire for.

00;03;39;21 - 00;03;41;13
Herb Janick
Where were they located.

00;03;41;15 - 00;04;01;17
Jerry Lombardi
All along the river from. If you look. At East Liberty Street, before you cross the tracks, come out of park. You can get that little high, all right. Or if you look from left to right, you saw a whole. The runs parallel to west streets, following the river. Where White Street.

00;04;01;20 - 00;04;04;09
Herb Janick
Okay. That runs parallel to the railroad tracks. The rear of.

00;04;04;09 - 00;04;06;11
Jerry Lombardi
That parking lot. They just built was put.

00;04;06;11 - 00;04;06;24
Herb Janick
Yeah.

00;04;06;28 - 00;04;26;08
Jerry Lombardi
Well, one one area that was the Fairfield Processing Fur Company, and then below that was Ebert Fur Empire for now. Did they open all white or did they open them up north and off the lane that goes down into your parking lot? Now, on this side of the river and on the other side of the river, they opened off into Chestnut Street.

00;04;26;14 - 00;04;29;11
Herb Janick
All right. So they were actually on both sides of the river, right.

00;04;29;13 - 00;04;49;20
Jerry Lombardi
And at the foot of Walmer Street we're at lounge is when you cross the railroad tracks. There was a lane that went in there. Okay. The other side of the railroad tracks have a lane on them which is vacant land. And back then I like to get casual activities back into that. There was they one in there and there were three factories in there too.

00;04;49;22 - 00;04;51;12
Herb Janick
Okay. So you concentrated on that?

00;04;51;14 - 00;05;00;16
Jerry Lombardi
Yeah. Right, right. And, some of the factories were closed, some were just ready to close.

00;05;00;18 - 00;05;16;13
Jerry Lombardi
But it took quite a bit of it, and most of all ended up in combination because the owners felt they were not good at that. When we were going to get them for the condition of the building. So we went to condemnation for many more project.

00;05;16;16 - 00;05;20;16
Herb Janick
Acquisitions in the second. Now, were they they weren't used as had factories at that point.

00;05;20;16 - 00;05;22;15
Jerry Lombardi
They were most of that.

00;05;22;17 - 00;05;25;08
Herb Janick
Sure. They just, we wanted to get.

00;05;25;08 - 00;05;28;05
Jerry Lombardi
But there were some fur operations, small operation, still.

00;05;28;05 - 00;05;29;29
Herb Janick
Going, but they wanted to get as much as they could.

00;05;30;05 - 00;05;38;16
Jerry Lombardi
yeah. Right. A Fairfield processing had begun to just because they had invented the process of the pop.

00;05;38;19 - 00;05;38;24
Herb Janick
In.

00;05;38;24 - 00;05;42;12
Jerry Lombardi
The hat in the first shop. Oh, they did down the lane. And that's what they.

00;05;42;15 - 00;05;44;05
Herb Janick
That's what they did out there. And Mallory's.

00;05;44;06 - 00;06;04;14
Jerry Lombardi
Thing. Right. And the money they, they got from us for that building that was half burned to have fire there beside got them started off the Mallory plant for $150,000. They sell Samyang used to create for Stanley. That's what he's going to cry. What you're doing to me is I mean, I know what I'm doing there either. Not another way.

00;06;04;16 - 00;06;23;06
Jerry Lombardi
Oh, right. because luckily, Stetson was bailing out of that building, and it was really, what, a steal for not market building. But he wanted it in those days. Just too big down. It was too big. And Sam had this money in the he had to keep his operations on. He was running good. He only used the first couple for three.

00;06;23;06 - 00;06;24;10
Jerry Lombardi
First got the building.

00;06;24;13 - 00;06;25;12
Herb Janick
I guess he never used it.

00;06;25;12 - 00;06;31;08
Jerry Lombardi
All that money did today with redevelop. It was good.

00;06;31;10 - 00;06;34;23
Herb Janick
Yeah. So the redevelopment had a lot of impact.

00;06;35;00 - 00;06;47;08
Jerry Lombardi
Oh, that's another tape. All the all the places that were built. Right. you'd be amazed at the locations that are you see around town that are the result of all that moving from one old building to another one.

00;06;47;10 - 00;06;49;01
Herb Janick
That's one we're going to go into.

00;06;50;01 - 00;07;17;11
Jerry Lombardi
so we did this process, of LDP for four years up until 1975. And then in 1975, the act changed totally eliminating any more grants for redevelopment or water sewer extensions or open space. That was in the era of community development. Block grant and then came into being in Washington, and all these other programs were stopped so that.

00;07;17;18 - 00;07;18;14
Herb Janick
That's when it stopped.

00;07;18;17 - 00;07;35;06
Jerry Lombardi
Right? So we at that point had acquired all the land for the flood control, and that was in process. We had acquired part of the land to finish Patriot Drive, and then acquired another land to do the Liberty Street Extension.

00;07;35;09 - 00;07;41;21
Unknown
Expansion work to prepare the land for redevelopment, which is that which is happening, and.

00;07;41;21 - 00;07;42;29
Jerry Lombardi
All the rest of the project.

00;07;42;29 - 00;07;44;29
Herb Janick
The whole Federal Road extension, the federal.

00;07;45;02 - 00;08;04;20
Jerry Lombardi
Extension was by the for the college. In the meantime, I got a story of college that turned out to be, well, an exercise in futility as far as we were concerned, because the college got going in the direction of a second campus, which you should be able to find out the politics of that better than I.

00;08;04;22 - 00;08;29;07
Jerry Lombardi
There was a whole change in thinking in Hartford. Instead of putting any money into expanding this campus, they decided to go, you know, property in Mill Plain and build a second campus. But we also thought that they might support us on a couple of parcels. In fact, we held out for a long time with has had something like $800,000 set aside for a long time at the state level, but we couldn't proceed to acquire it.

00;08;29;07 - 00;08;30;07
Jerry Lombardi
Turn it over to our.

00;08;30;14 - 00;08;31;12
Herb Janick
Because of your.

00;08;31;15 - 00;08;45;11
Jerry Lombardi
Class. They stopped us out of money. But in the meantime, then with the new campus coming into being, they decided to take that money, do a little bit of improving across. They bought some of those parcels themselves. They and and put the parking lot.

00;08;45;11 - 00;08;47;09
Herb Janick
They did they they thought that.

00;08;47;09 - 00;08;50;12
Jerry Lombardi
Separate those pieces were bought by the state directly.

00;08;50;14 - 00;08;51;05
Herb Janick
With that money.

00;08;51;05 - 00;09;09;12
Jerry Lombardi
Right. So at that same portion, the money that they would have acquired from us all the land from Chestnut Street, from Chester Place, the street, the Durand Street, that they used up all that money to buy just the pieces, the four houses and then the park.

00;09;09;15 - 00;09;15;27
Herb Janick
Wow. Now I one time now Ruth has one. Was eager to go. Is this plant?

00;09;15;28 - 00;09;38;01
Jerry Lombardi
Oh, yeah. You know, it's a church. She had support from higher levels too in the state as far as a year of course. Department. And they set aside the necessary funds supported by state governors, the county commission to allocate funds for that purpose, because it was going to be a part of the state. We were going to sell them, cleared land, at a price that would have them.

00;09;38;03 - 00;09;43;26
Herb Janick
So you're a separate entity legally. You I mean, it would be a legal deal between you and the state.

00;09;43;28 - 00;09;51;09
Jerry Lombardi
What would have been the the city acting. Okay, see, we we were never a legal entity. We are the redevelopment agency acting.

00;09;51;09 - 00;09;57;18
Unknown
For and on behalf of the city. David, we are the city of Bangor. There are or.

00;09;57;20 - 00;09;59;20
Jerry Lombardi
By state statute.

00;09;59;22 - 00;10;01;08
Herb Janick
So when you own property, the.

00;10;01;09 - 00;10;02;05
Jerry Lombardi
City.

00;10;02;07 - 00;10;23;19
Herb Janick
In the name of the city, you know, it's interesting the college connection here because the story that has got circulated was that the interest in expanding around downtown Midtown ended because of the high appraisals of those properties are on Locust Avenue and Osborn Street. And right, which was probably true, but.

00;10;23;19 - 00;10;25;15
Jerry Lombardi
That was the that was the expansion to that.

00;10;25;19 - 00;10;28;23
Herb Janick
Area. But nobody ever talked about the other self, white Street.

00;10;28;24 - 00;10;32;11
Jerry Lombardi
I don't think that the the other side of Weiser was really the most feasible.

00;10;32;11 - 00;10;34;09
Herb Janick
What an opportunity that it was.

00;10;34;09 - 00;10;38;07
Jerry Lombardi
It was a major would have been a major change in the downtown.

00;10;38;10 - 00;10;39;15
Herb Janick
That you would have.

00;10;39;15 - 00;10;41;07
Jerry Lombardi
Those buildings that were

00;10;41;09 - 00;10;52;16
Herb Janick
Yeah, the that I'd love to see. That plan was a curiosity. Of course, it would almost have to be accompanied by the rest of the plan to it, because you'd have to get into the center of town a little better than right.

00;10;52;18 - 00;11;15;01
Jerry Lombardi
Right. The other axis is where, of course, the college didn't need any more of that access to the downtown area. That's why the East-West road, so to speak, thank you will be able to connect, is to be the major change for the downtown area. That was going to be the major access in this city rather than this, or turned out now.

00;11;15;01 - 00;11;21;25
Jerry Lombardi
But now for people like just secondary college to the same property, by using existing.

00;11;22;19 - 00;11;24;15
Herb Janick
That was even thought up then.

00;11;24;18 - 00;11;32;23
Jerry Lombardi
Now that fall off of that to tell me how I should have just using those streets as they are not connecting in one way.

00;11;32;23 - 00;11;46;09
Herb Janick
Or the how would I don't have a great clear picture of how this new superhighway entrance to Danbury would have worked out? Where would it have gone as part of the the major downtown in the what?

00;11;46;10 - 00;11;50;19
Jerry Lombardi
A number one bridged the railroad crossing.

00;11;50;21 - 00;11;55;10
Unknown
At Liberty Street, East Liberty Street and just go right for that.

00;11;55;10 - 00;12;01;18
Herb Janick
Comfort. All right? Right here. That continues right across, right over it. Right. And you will have bridge that will run there.

00;12;01;19 - 00;12;15;19
Jerry Lombardi
You would have a bridge. While the street at the same time. And then you would have ended up at Federal Road this side of the river bridge.

00;12;15;21 - 00;12;22;16
Herb Janick
That intersection of Bushwacker and that's right in there. And then it would, would you would it have planned to go beyond that?

00;12;22;19 - 00;12;24;04
Jerry Lombardi
Well, that beyond that would.

00;12;24;04 - 00;12;28;17
Herb Janick
Have been something another project had to decide. Was it ultimately ended 87.

00;12;28;17 - 00;12;56;29
Jerry Lombardi
But it was eventually I expected that route seven would be the end of wow, thank you for what we were looking for. I don't think we even had those old plans where we had the names of the. We had a set of those maps. Next time bird comes back before it comes back. Those are the side activities planned for, let's see what.

00;12;57;02 - 00;13;05;05
Herb Janick
76 to 75?

00;13;05;07 - 00;13;22;23
Jerry Lombardi
Are we used to have these these plan. This doesn't show the, We don't have that many there. Okay, well, let's really just generally shows you the boundaries. these are the parties that have already been acquired at the time. This map.

00;13;22;23 - 00;13;23;28
Herb Janick
Is okay.

00;13;24;00 - 00;13;28;24
Unknown
That. But what we're going to do that year. Okay. Do the next year.

00;13;29;29 - 00;13;37;03
Herb Janick
Okay. So since then, since the mid 70s, it's been really trying to deal with.

00;13;37;04 - 00;13;48;20
Jerry Lombardi
Past the mid 70s, it's all been right here and now with these things that the block grant money was used from 1975, 70 to 75 that dealt with all of this.

00;13;48;22 - 00;13;49;10
Herb Janick
Year by year.

00;13;49;14 - 00;13;58;18
Jerry Lombardi
Right from 75 to 85. Really that done with all this?

00;13;58;20 - 00;13;59;26
Herb Janick
What are you thinking? Of course.

00;13;59;28 - 00;14;25;12
Jerry Lombardi
Money diminished for redevelopment issues as it became more and more oriented toward low moderate income benefit. You see, in the early days they accepted low moderate income benefit in general terms. And you could use major portions of your block grant money to complete the kinds of things that we used before. But then as time went on, Congress made it more oriented toward direct benefit, low moderate income.

00;14;25;15 - 00;14;31;23
Jerry Lombardi
So we couldn't save because we built the waterline up here, that low, moderate people would benefit as well as others with new jobs. So I didn't know.

00;14;31;29 - 00;14;33;04
Herb Janick
Where they would buy that. Right.

00;14;33;09 - 00;14;39;16
Jerry Lombardi
Let me get this specific. Now we have to even go by census track how many people live in that sense. As before, you.

00;14;39;18 - 00;14;48;17
Herb Janick
Wonder the focus shift on that was that the Carter years? Do you think, when they began to move toward the more social benefits to, I.

00;14;48;17 - 00;14;53;03
Jerry Lombardi
Guess it would have been, I guess it would have been on the shack? When I think of years,

00;14;53;05 - 00;14;55;01
Herb Janick
Mid 70s, we did.

00;14;55;04 - 00;15;04;12
Jerry Lombardi
Well, 75 is when black Grant started and, that's the 1980 would be the.

00;15;04;14 - 00;15;06;20
Jerry Lombardi
About the time, I think they began to get.

00;15;06;23 - 00;15;12;25
Unknown
Closer and closer to like it gets to our some of our reviews of grant applications.

00;15;12;27 - 00;15;13;27
Herb Janick
But it's amazing.

00;15;13;27 - 00;15;36;03
Jerry Lombardi
Actually in the Reagan years, it got even more, more tight than it was in the cardiac as far as Lamond Venture was concerned that it. Yeah, yeah. And mostly because Congress, the House especially has very strong input in the direction of block grant money approvals. Use the money in the Senate to.

00;15;36;05 - 00;15;37;07
Herb Janick
Be mostly the House.

00;15;37;10 - 00;15;40;28
Jerry Lombardi
The House. Yeah. And they were long and appropriations and.

00;15;40;28 - 00;15;44;15
Herb Janick
They were more oriented toward that. That approach.

00;15;44;17 - 00;15;55;16
Jerry Lombardi
So you just said what they said was, you know, it didn't change the the language of the law. They simply said what the law meant was this and not that.

00;15;55;18 - 00;16;01;20
Herb Janick
Did the law earlier even have this, these statements in it? But yes.

00;16;01;23 - 00;16;25;19
Jerry Lombardi
It always has always had the statements. And but what they would accept as meaning that statement changed within the regulations themselves. The Department of Housing and Urban Development regulations themselves would change, and they would change by direction of Congress in amendments that they would put on the grant each year, the appropriations bill each year, whatever amendments in which they would direct, do this.

00;16;25;19 - 00;16;38;08
Herb Janick
And so was there much consideration, a jury, even in the early parts of now, you mentioned the one time about building housing at that spot on Main Street. about not just building the house in.

00;16;38;14 - 00;16;53;00
Jerry Lombardi
Time at the time you got this project going, one of the requirements was housing the other way around. Instead of not building housing, we were forced to say where we would build housing to take care of the relocation needs. Contrary to what we did up here, nobody asked where you were.

00;16;53;07 - 00;16;54;10
Herb Janick
You just took care of them.

00;16;54;13 - 00;17;18;22
Jerry Lombardi
You had to relocate. We had to assimilate them to decent, safe and standard housing that they could afford. But there was no requirement that we had to show, a place for them before we started the project, period. We had to show that there would be housing available to them, but somewhere else. Well, you know, the Denver area as far as so in that regard.

00;17;18;22 - 00;17;30;15
Jerry Lombardi
So we said, okay, we'll buy this parcel of land and if necessary, we will build low income housing on this site. This is what the courthouse is. So in our.

00;17;30;15 - 00;17;31;20
Herb Janick
First year, hold it back.

00;17;31;20 - 00;17;45;07
Jerry Lombardi
For the and our first year planning. One of the things we did, the first year was this the second year planning, we brought this parcel or two parcels, actually, all these houses. And how.

00;17;45;10 - 00;17;48;03
Herb Janick
Long? By one and that satisfied.

00;17;48;06 - 00;18;00;07
Jerry Lombardi
And that was three acres of land there that met their need for supplying low income housing. When we got into major relocation that was here. And then subsequent to that.

00;18;00;09 - 00;18;06;03
Unknown
That all went by the board to make it required for money to buy the parcels.

00;18;06;05 - 00;18;08;27
Jerry Lombardi
So project area.

00;18;08;29 - 00;18;17;17
Unknown
Became a moot point. and we went into it, we got it to the deal with the state, negotiated with the Public Works Department and courthouse.

00;18;17;23 - 00;18;20;18
Jerry Lombardi
And that bounced around back and forth to you remember at one time the council.

00;18;20;18 - 00;18;36;25
Herb Janick
Wanted to put it down. You know, and we ended up going over there but, but that was the extent of it. There was never any sort of somewhere in the either first or second phase actually building housing as part of it, like we're talking about parcel A, you know.

00;18;36;27 - 00;18;42;06
Jerry Lombardi
The only, the only thing was we built the we sold the parcel of at Small Efficiency Apartments.

00;18;42;06 - 00;18;45;01
Herb Janick
Oh, yeah. Right at the intersection. Right.

00;18;45;04 - 00;18;50;16
Jerry Lombardi
The I was and again, we were dealing again with zoning and planning in the city.

00;18;50;18 - 00;18;51;19
Herb Janick
Who wasn't eager to have.

00;18;51;19 - 00;19;15;03
Jerry Lombardi
Which, which is zoning in recent times that they combined residential with commercial. If you look at the history of the of planning in the city, you will find there were definite divisions as to where you could build housing or where you couldn't build housing. The the so-called CBD zone, which we now have downtown, allows both for the mixed housing and as well.

00;19;15;03 - 00;19;22;07
Jerry Lombardi
But but the mixed housing and retail commercial use had not come into being in the planning circles.

00;19;22;07 - 00;19;31;01
Herb Janick
So the planning was separate them. Yeah. This is commercial. That's right. Exactly. When would you you have a guess of when the.

00;19;31;01 - 00;19;46;18
Jerry Lombardi
CBD only came into existence. And I think it's since 170 came or maybe the last year before he got here. It's only been in recent years that we've had the CBD zone, which was a combination of 2 or 3 zones and put them outside. You could do it all in.

00;19;46;20 - 00;19;47;17
Herb Janick
So in other words, the goal.

00;19;47;17 - 00;19;51;06
Jerry Lombardi
Of the property line divisions of

00;19;51;08 - 00;19;51;26
Herb Janick
In order to get.

00;19;51;26 - 00;19;56;29
Jerry Lombardi
That a lot of right and a lot of changes that needed to have.

00;19;57;01 - 00;20;03;13
Herb Janick
What should we say about private project, Project Acre parcel A that we well.

00;20;03;16 - 00;20;20;28
Jerry Lombardi
Project A parcel A was a again intended at one time to include the main some other pieces along in here too. And of course you've got to include Main Street. But even if you if you didn't take me through, the more we were going to do what they're talking about now.

00;20;21;01 - 00;20;22;08
Herb Janick
And include a like the.

00;20;22;08 - 00;20;47;07
Jerry Lombardi
Linkage here in the same place where it happened. Available. But ultimately when we decided a no, we couldn't do any more or less if we were continuing to be funded under NDP, what would have happened probably would have been we had just begun to appraise not the buildings, but acquiring all the land and some of the smaller buildings in the rear so that we could make a direct link between these buildings.

00;20;47;07 - 00;20;53;14
Jerry Lombardi
And mostly even today, there is going to be a separation. The street is going to separate. Yes, there.

00;20;53;14 - 00;20;54;01
Herb Janick
Will be lots.

00;20;54;02 - 00;21;07;01
Jerry Lombardi
And the mix of traffic, pedestrian traffic, particularly if we wanted to, there's still going to be a separation. Yeah. One of the big reasons why the mall didn't go, you know, was because it was it was treated as a separate entity altogether.

00;21;07;02 - 00;21;08;00
Herb Janick
It was isolated.

00;21;08;00 - 00;21;24;07
Jerry Lombardi
At the time. It was the first place when they didn't allow us to build that building there, which would have sort of tied them, like visually and kind of in a visual. Like there was also a definite link between the Downtown Merchants Association and the Mall Association.

00;21;24;09 - 00;21;25;24
Herb Janick
Downtown hostility.

00;21;25;27 - 00;21;35;18
Jerry Lombardi
Yeah, mostly that part of the mall or the downtown. People thought that this mall was the same way that they feel of Danbury. They are right, a fair mall. So it was a.

00;21;35;18 - 00;21;36;26
Herb Janick
Rival rather than just that.

00;21;36;26 - 00;21;51;26
Jerry Lombardi
As being a part of the family downtown. It was thought of as a rival and it was treated as a rival. I remember reading at Christmas time and, I just, forgot to be ticked off.

00;21;52;08 - 00;21;54;07
Herb Janick
don't worry about that. Things like that. I used to have.

00;21;54;07 - 00;22;20;10
Jerry Lombardi
Some feelings that Charlie Barton and some of the guys that were active in those days in the Downtown Merchants Association Board of Trade, was supposed to be a division of Chamber of Commerce, was trying to split off for the downtown Council because they weren't being treated. they by the chamber that they should be. But anyhow, supporting retail, that they had Christmas ads and they'd have a combined head of stores being open for Christmas and so on, and they'd list clothing store, jewelry stores.

00;22;20;12 - 00;22;28;20
Jerry Lombardi
They would only list the ones that were, they wouldn't list. It was like, well, these guys have their own ads.

00;22;28;22 - 00;22;29;28
Herb Janick
So not only physically.

00;22;29;28 - 00;22;36;07
Jerry Lombardi
When they talk of downtown Danbury, they did that. Okay. This is it was not downtown. And any.

00;22;36;07 - 00;22;39;18
Herb Janick
Effort to try to get them to work together or get them to see.

00;22;39;18 - 00;22;57;29
Jerry Lombardi
That, well, most of the people that were in the mall were not local people anyhow. They got stores to come from various areas. Some of our store down there, most of them came about as people expanding from downtown because, again, much like he had to go, yeah, he had to go see more people. Well.

00;22;58;01 - 00;23;00;09
Herb Janick
So so they were foreigners.

00;23;00;11 - 00;23;07;08
Jerry Lombardi
Yeah. Right. Matt Milano's delicatessen out there in the northeast shopping center favorite. There were that that came to.

00;23;07;15 - 00;23;08;29
Herb Janick
Realize there.

00;23;09;02 - 00;23;10;21
Jerry Lombardi
Is that right.

00;23;10;23 - 00;23;16;21
Herb Janick
Now. Was it part of the architecture, do you think, too, that made them look separate like that? Yeah.

00;23;16;22 - 00;23;42;05
Jerry Lombardi
Of course. Again, sure. We found out in later years that mall thought they're self-contained units. When you stood on the street over here, looked across at the mall, you only saw a building. Yeah. You didn't really have a feeling that. But when you were gone there, you parked and then you went in the. For sure. We wanted to be there so that there was a division that,

00;23;42;08 - 00;23;50;05
Jerry Lombardi
Physical division was important. And then the fact that it was separate, but it's still it could have been, you know, White Plains has the mall down there, the.

00;23;50;07 - 00;23;53;27
Herb Janick
Other you think maybe it could have worked here if it had been done right.

00;23;54;00 - 00;24;11;10
Jerry Lombardi
I think the extra effort to promote and there were various other four were other factors. Well, one of the other major factors was the mall was it was anchor with one department store. And in those days, Farber used to come in with poles as to who he would put in that store when he tried to get his plans approved.

00;24;11;12 - 00;24;12;24
Herb Janick
Because they were fancy.

00;24;12;25 - 00;24;33;16
Jerry Lombardi
Ford was very anxious to know that somebody would be in there that would draw people to that mall and draw people to the downtown as well. So we started out trying to get rid of department store. This was before redevelopment there. We thought we had reached an up close with, well, it was so close that we couldn't believe when they announced that they were going out there.

00;24;33;18 - 00;24;51;28
Jerry Lombardi
The Farber know that. They told him no. They had decided if they wanted to be out there because they thought that that area, which of course turned out to be, became very busy. And, they were going to be the interchange of the new route seven and nine. That these are all things that were happy.

00;24;51;28 - 00;24;53;16
Herb Janick
To move to the suburb is really.

00;24;53;20 - 00;25;04;06
Jerry Lombardi
Moving right into the access. They can't get into downtown out there will be right off the exit. We tried to tell that that exit was going to be eliminated eventually, which it finally was. They don't have anything in any long range.

00;25;04;06 - 00;25;05;18
Herb Janick
I think they made a bad move right?

00;25;05;18 - 00;25;11;26
Jerry Lombardi
They did, they did. But in the meantime, in the interim years, I guess they know enough for a year that if they.

00;25;11;27 - 00;25;13;14
Herb Janick
Sit here, that could really change.

00;25;13;14 - 00;25;37;15
Jerry Lombardi
Them. Yeah. And the second one was serious. Now, even back in those days, Sears wanted to get out of that store. They had that terrible. Whatever happened to Sears was almost tied up. Sears and fact even came before the board redevelopment board to plead the case, because in those days, I guess even today, Sears is a part of their operation and their newer stores has a motor vehicle, the auto motor service.

00;25;37;15 - 00;25;59;13
Jerry Lombardi
All of the motor aspect of the operation, one of the one of the rules the authority to establish in this would be no service stations. So Sears came in and asked them to change their thinking. That would be a service station, but it wouldn't be the same kind of operation and the board would not want to go there.

00;25;59;13 - 00;26;03;08
Jerry Lombardi
You know, they thought that the Chargers wanted to come in badly enough that they.

00;26;03;08 - 00;26;06;18
Herb Janick
Would still take their rules and their rules and come back.

00;26;06;18 - 00;26;16;10
Jerry Lombardi
Without the ordinance. And in those days, the automotive was Sears mind. Anyhow, the big thing, the big thing, there was a lot of competition, a lot of stores doing the same thing.

00;26;16;13 - 00;26;19;04
Herb Janick
Western Auto and places like that. Some of the big department.

00;26;19;04 - 00;26;44;20
Jerry Lombardi
Stores grant was doing it some places I think Penney's was. Anyhow, there were other stores, retailers that were getting into the automotive and it was thought to be the way to go. See, and they didn't want to commit to a new operation without committing and including their new aspect of automotive. And the court had to say, with the automotive across the street just outside the line, and they wouldn't do it, and they almost brought that with them.

00;26;44;20 - 00;26;48;15
Jerry Lombardi
They said, no, they want to be together.

00;26;48;17 - 00;26;50;12
Herb Janick
Just think of those opportunities.

00;26;50;14 - 00;27;02;22
Jerry Lombardi
Right. You know, again, it's easy to retrospect and second guess what the guys thought they had, because in the meantime that Farber came in and he said the Grand Union Company was coming up with a new operation called Grand Way Stores.

00;27;02;28 - 00;27;03;26
Herb Janick
To upgrade their.

00;27;04;00 - 00;27;29;17
Jerry Lombardi
Upgrade. Their image and Mr. Hayman was a developer, a part of the way that first of Connecticut and one of the people that was coming into his operation, the rest of them, it was a grand way department store. And I can remember like it was yesterday, one night at the board meeting, hash and back and forth about what is Grand way really just another great union or is it the partnership is now, I can assure you I wouldn't have let them in my place.

00;27;29;17 - 00;27;43;28
Jerry Lombardi
But you know, they carried a lot of weight just really at the park. Well, he had he had the background of experience, his own money. Was it, you know, him once in a while and he was telling him facts that he was putting his own money into, and they know he was such. It was part of the all the time.

00;27;44;01 - 00;28;03;11
Jerry Lombardi
Like the building was quickly up there. Got another thing those days. I remember that he really convinced them that the grand way the operation was going to be good enough as any of the others worked, and that they're going to be competitive in that same kind of way, really departments and the kind really don't draw people famous here.

00;28;03;11 - 00;28;17;18
Jerry Lombardi
Serious work. So it wasn't a big loss. We look now, they thought, well, so serious we can do what we want. But we got great lawyers. They had something else that they could lean on and they took it as an alternative. And within 7 or 8 years, the family gave up their lives.

00;28;17;24 - 00;28;18;28
Herb Janick
And they changed their.

00;28;19;05 - 00;28;40;15
Jerry Lombardi
Strategy and changed their whole strategy, decided they didn't want to go anyway, to the point that they would even give up the lease. And once they gave up the lease, the satellite stores just gradually died. Whether or not the finally and in the meantime, the operation of the mall withered. Security wasn't that good. Kids began to hang around and people would go there anymore.

00;28;40;18 - 00;28;50;04
Jerry Lombardi
I mean, it's amazing, but this one of them against the air. And all of a sudden the foundation began seriously, and the whole thing died.

00;28;50;06 - 00;28;52;00
Herb Janick
And we were lucky to get a tenant.

00;28;52;03 - 00;29;01;06
Jerry Lombardi
Okay. Right. Well, what about then? Mayor Bishop doesn't work very hard. He thought he had the post office, I wonder? Yeah. First let's.

00;29;01;13 - 00;29;02;13
Herb Janick
Talk about some because they.

00;29;02;13 - 00;29;20;16
Jerry Lombardi
Tried to get. What if they could get the post office in there to take part of it? The battles they were going to try to have the city take stakes and the city didn't feel like to do it all by themselves. In this day. And if he died, I might have been willing to take the, the Or the one way or more.

00;29;20;18 - 00;29;37;08
Jerry Lombardi
There was no way to try that. The post office that. They tried to the courthouse in here did. I didn't know that for sure. And then they moved. The courthouse was going to go down the the third, the main street, the I mean, they weren't.

00;29;37;08 - 00;29;38;08
Herb Janick
There in addition to.

00;29;38;08 - 00;29;42;14
Jerry Lombardi
The. Well, that building was on the blocks and was half built and the developer.

00;29;42;14 - 00;29;51;28
Herb Janick
And I and. All right. Okay. And, they were going it that's the right well received and ended up okay. That's right. It was empty for it.

00;29;51;28 - 00;29;53;08
Jerry Lombardi
Never finished.

00;29;53;10 - 00;30;00;00
Herb Janick
They never really seriously thought about in addition to the current courthouse, did they. Just that little point. No, no.

00;30;00;02 - 00;30;01;01
Jerry Lombardi
No house of that building.

00;30;01;01 - 00;30;05;29
Unknown
Is actually going to do that.

00;30;06;01 - 00;30;12;14
Jerry Lombardi
So mean that's where we stepped in and said fine, rather than lose it because I began to talk about it didn't have to be right in the city.

00;30;12;14 - 00;30;14;17
Herb Janick
They, okay. So at least kept.

00;30;14;17 - 00;30;21;18
Jerry Lombardi
They began to lose that altogether. And so they pressed for this. It's not the best for.

00;30;21;21 - 00;30;23;15
Herb Janick
It to keep them downtown. Yeah.

00;30;23;17 - 00;30;31;27
Jerry Lombardi
You know, and the post office, we tried also to get it over here. I had more meetings to talk about the River post office that we had. And almost I remember.

00;30;31;27 - 00;30;34;04
Herb Janick
That this is the one about parking their truck.

00;30;34;04 - 00;30;35;05
Jerry Lombardi
They want to call it.

00;30;35;05 - 00;30;36;14
Herb Janick
And that's that's.

00;30;36;16 - 00;30;39;11
Jerry Lombardi
Yeah. So gather up at the fairgrounds. Of course there.

00;30;39;15 - 00;30;42;26
Herb Janick
Were all that. Yeah. Well, I'm not sure that.

00;30;42;28 - 00;30;47;01
Jerry Lombardi
The traffic's going to be anything about it. I can't believe this.

Side A:
0:00-10:00
Democratic Party had appointed Lombardi on joint board of finance in late 1950’s; appointment was approved by local, state, and Supreme courts; the City was Democratic; Town was Republican; Lombardi's background in the Danbury real estate led to support for appointment in of the Redevelopment position; First flood had occurred in 1955 and the next one in 1957; Establishment of the Flood Control committee had been on its way already before Lombardi was appointed; Ordinances and approval of board had to be set-up (which began in 1957); First flood in 1955 was catalyst for Redevelopment Agency to begin; Abraham A. Ribicoff was Governor of Connecticut at the time; strongly promoted liberal activities around the State; photographs taken of when Gov. Ribicoff came to Danbury and met with officials showcasing flooded areas from Still River; Actively supported the Redevelopment Agency and was willing to help with application approval;

Still River was a known problem; Especially after heavy rain; Operations for businesses would have to halted; World War Two also put a halt on controlling flooding issues; Stone roadways were old and significantly eroding; Lombardi mentions how water did not always flood into the streets though; Not until the large flood in 1955, but factories, homes, and buildings close to Still River knew that water would flow into their basements, So, when the 1955 flood occurred many knew that this was time to act, and better yet a chance to receive funds from Federal government; Started to work on redevelopment planning; People who helped launch redevelopment were Judge Lewis George (active Republican), Mr. Erickson (head of Barnson Corp.), George O’Brien (who later became chairman of the Redevelopment board); the Danbury Relocation and Redevelopment agency began in 1957; Yet, application approvals came from H.U.D. in 1959; Danbury pursued project full-fledge soon after in November 1959; Many towns started forming redevelopment agencies throughout the State; One could follow the Still River up the line and see all the towns like Naugatuck or Derby all the way down to Norwalk applying and had utilized funds from H.U.D.; Lombardi emphasises that Danbury was no different; the group of United States Army of Engineers (USACE) is not involved at this point; They did not get involved until many years later because could not meet the cost-benefit ratio of land set by Congress; Danbury's economy was not as well off as it in future years and did not meet with the value of the land in order for federal flood act to invest in redevelopment projects; Not enough urbanization yet;

10:01-20:00
USACE's engineers made various trips to Danbury and further created models; Models were a part of a “500 year Flood Plan”; The depths, channels, and curves of the Still River through specific flood zones of Danbury were all analyzed, measured, and determined by the USACE engineers; In fact, Danbury had followed these models for Phase One; City had to do it all themselves though; USACE did not get involved until the Second Phase of Redevelopment project;

Spring of 1958 Lombardi was asked to take position as Relocation Officer; Danbury had to relocate businesses and families within 200 parcels of land in flood area or within the First Phase area downtown; Relocation offices were next to the old Elk Lodge Building; American Legion building on Elm St. -that is now owned by Joe DeSilva largest building on Elm Street (Lombardi mentions this was the originally Amerigo Vespucci Lodge Sons of Italy, a national organization), and was lost during the Great Depression; Wanted to get back up and running; Needed money to help support their building; First renovations for City Planning and Redevelopment started with this building and created direct ties with H.U.D.; Building’s property lines laid at Still River, so took from that approach to other projects; Joseph Miro Serono Jr. was active Democrat one the first members of the City Planning Commission in order to start the Redevelopment Board had to take two steps and the City Planning commission was first to be setup; Danbury was still dual government; Redevelopment had a visible presence in each of the (Phase One?) building’s appraisals;
1962 onward Joseph Lombardi was the Danbury redevelopment board full-time director’s assistant and was the one who dealt with the Federal government consistently throughout the redevelopment process; Joseph E. Canale was part-time was heavily involved with Federal application processing and then became Director later on; Since Canale was part-time, much of the daily operations at the office was left to Lombardi; Canale mainly dealt with public affairs like meetings and public hearings, which Lombardi also attended;

20:01-30:00
1962 onward Joseph Lombardi was the Danbury redevelopment board full-time director’s assistant and was the one who dealt with the Federal government consistently throughout the redevelopment process; Joseph E. Canale was part-time was heavily involved with Federal application processing, and then became Director later on; Since Canale was part-time, much of the daily operations at the office was left to Lombardi; Canale mainly dealt with public affairs like meetings and public hearings, which Lombardi also attended; Joseph Hayes was on the Housing commission (was later appointed full-time Assistant Director of the Danbury Redevelopment board) even though he was a native of New Britain and not from Danbury; First Phase of Danbury Redevelopment 1957-1967/8; Official closing date for Phase One was in 1970; What areas were first involved: Grove St. two pre-existing River St., Rose St., and White St. up until railroad station; central focus on the intersection of Elm St. and White St. along with 4 bridges; Federal was supplying 2/3 of the money. The other 1/3 of it was split down the middle between Danbury itself and the State; danbury would City’s contribution (paid for by Danbury) were: Rose St. bridge, White St. bridge, Crosby St. bridge; in order to get approved by H.U.D. for cash bonds “field man” would come in from New York office of HUD to check-in on developments; occur monthly and would stay all day; He had to create long reports on the steps taken by the board; Cost/benefit ratio assessed by Federal; Only certain land parcel; Disposed value and what the extra piece of land had to be more than the cost; Audio cuts out here.

Side B:
30:40-40:00
Remnants of ethnic communities in Downtown area; mainly Lebanese and others were there for many many years due to work; Cold water flats were in poor condition where the building that were mostly cleared and those families were the ones to first be relocated; Blighted flats near the river on White Street area; Buildings under water at the rear of White St. where the bridge was; Did not lose much of the historic buildings during the project; Redevelopment board could have done much better given the rules mandated by H.U.D.; Not many options with development of Main and White St. with flooding either; had to operate under Federal rules, specifically H.U.D. rules, even though it was partially the Danbury's money; had to promote each property in the neighborhood in a similar manner under H.U.D.; City thought development was great for businesses and opportunity to restore Downtown; 1/6 of the project share of H.U.D. money was given to downtown; great deal on infrastructure for City; Applications had to go through the State first (the Department of Community Affairs); State then sent funds to Federal; Once Federal approves the project, then funds are dispersed; involvement and money was given all by Federal government; State had little to do with approval or dispersement really; was a new State department at the time; In fact the first project, the state was so new to Flood Recovery process;

Had to get money upfront through temporary loan notes and reimbursements; No notes upfront for cities at this point; Temporary loan notes would be guaranteed or “backed” by H.U.D.; relied on private investors interest and money; Danbury specifically created their own advertisements to get private investors attention; H.U.D. would just authorize the sale of the renovated buildings; H.U.D. grants would go towards payment after each completed job/property; Also, had to maintain same level of improvement on each project; Part of the money from the sale of the building or property would then be put back into paying off those loans;

40:01-50:00
Large responsibility for Jerry Lombardi and his colleagues; Had a lot of bookkeeping involved and financial responsibility when it came to applying for the H.U.D. guaranteed loans, dealing with the taxes on each one, and then managing the project’s grant status as well; Administration of funds were out of Lombardi's office; new issues every day that had to be dealt with; Little details mattered greatly; Along with maintaining H.U.D.’s supervision and approval;
Phase One: Danbury Square Mall; Kennedy Park, the Bus Transit Stop, other parcels and little buildings along White and Main Streets.;One family owned three buildings on White St. had difficult time leaving properties; one of which was the first liquor stores on White Street and downtown Danbury; This liquor store they owned moved a couple of times (North St. location being noted by Lombardi); Owners could maintain liquor permit with first permission to move and then got a special exemption; if a business or someone was hurt by relocation could then receive relief funds from flooding; Most of this was finished up by late 1960’s; latter part of the First Phase large amount of clearing up, paperwork, and activity; In those days on H.U.D. was again dispersing funds to cities in need; Application for G.N.R.P. (General Neighborhood Renewal Project) under H.U.D. would sponsor a large area for redevelopment; rather than just for flood control (which was really distinguished Phase One); Industrial area with lots of factories still needed to be done at this time and was affected by the flood; however H.U.D. could only support the two million worth of renovations; so this second application of H.U.D. would help finish these streets; USACE's engineers had done a small piece of the Still River flooded area which was down on Triangle St. that needed major damming past the railroad tracks; Not strictly flood control anymore in the late 1960’s; not just Lombardi and his colleagues anymore either; Once Phase One really began, several boards had been established and full City Planning Department was up; Redevelopment Committee saw the need to expand the College (Western Connecticut State University) campus as a way strategically fund the rest of downtown Danbury; College was thinking about expanding over to the other western portion of Danbury area already; but College was receiving opposition from residents in the area and those at the State level who thought too much money was going to be spent on clearing for the money they would receive back; efforts centered around Western Ct State University on White St. to stimulate the rest of the Downtown; Expansion was already in the works; Jerry and the rest of the committee sat with Ruth Hass several times; asked Hass to request funds from the State about expanding the campus to the other side of White Street; if H.U.D. agreed would allocate college credits in order to push further renewal; This construction would be all along the Still River and go from the Chestnut St. down to where the Danbury courthouse currently sits to possibly the end of Liberty; Chichester Place Mainly all along the river’s edge; she got approval from the State and told board to put in their plan;

50:01-61:20
Prepared and then submitted blueprints of campus and construction budget for dormitories, Administrative offices, as well as classrooms on that side of White Street, However, there was concern over the clearing of these buildings that were there; Had to follow H.U.D.’s rules; Would be considered as part of the General Neighborhood Renewal Plan (GNRP); First focus was on East and White St. as apart of college expansion efforts; Also to help traffic flow; Access road downtown without one that wounded in through Chestnut St. instead of just being the main one; which would improve a.) flood control b.) traffic c.) college campus expansion;
Reference to blueprints, a large map, and GNRP write-up for this (Interviewee Herb Janick asks from a Xerox copy of these from Jerry); GNRP ended in 1965; As the other H.U.D. project finished up, planning for the next started; Jerry’s office had to send these to city planning committee; All were on board; Lots of enthusiasm for the expansion of college campus, would open east side of Main St., but had issues with clearance of pre-existing buildings on this side of White St. from H.U.D; However, preservationists started to raise questions; No organized voices at the time; Willing to question and discuss; Project was passed/approved still; Clear, acquire, and then re-build was the initiative; Steps taken next included these streets: White St., Davis and Sherran Street (what was considered Midtown East of Danbury), Casper St. and one side of Liberty St. and was going to go down to Keeler and Center St. but ended up splitting the properties; Decision was made by the Federal; was seen as positive because it covered the flooded areas control and it looked like there was already enough
City had to inquire each of the properties, City had to buy land outright and then H.U.D. or other grants would be allocated later on to construction; USACE was involved all along the way, but did not fund; H.U.D. supported the activities;
Railroad was in bankruptcy; Board helped redevelop railroad too; H.U.D. also sponsored the reconstruction of the railroad had to temporarily relocate the tracks for awhile; Patriot Drive; Reasons why the streets and commercial buildings are the way it is today, because built into two sections; Money needed to be put in the pipelines and utilities first; Nixon administration wanted to end it
5 million dollars of appropriation that was originally approved to give to the City for the first ten years;
(Audio gets shaky then cuts out).