Gertrude Braun Interview
- Title
- Gertrude Braun Interview
- Date
- 11/24/98
- interviewer
- Janick, Herbert F.
- interviewee
- Braun, Gertrude
- Description
-
Tape 1 Side A - Gertrude Braun
00-10: Teacher preparation | Lab school | Dr. Jenkins | Augustus Sutton | New Haven state teachers college | Social sciences | Yale | History dept. | Intensive program in Danbury | Hamden | Gratin | New London | Hill was chairman of the Ed. dept. | Balmforth, Locust avenue - Alternative high school | Contract was Cancelled | Roberts Avenue School | City employees
11-20: Gertrude lived in Bethel for 15 years | Music dept. | Dr. Jenkins dropped dead in his office | Registrar | Ruth Haas | Rotary club luncheon | Dr. Jenkins had a massive heart attack
21-30: Old main was the college | 12 classrooms in old main including a gym and a library | Student union | Curly Hall | Original memorial hall | Student center
Tape 1 Side B - Gertrude Braun
00-10: Grant Finch | Carl Pettersh(?) | State college had become multipurpose | Intensive program as part of the graduate school | Dean of the college | Academic vice president - Board of trustees would not approve that title for eastern or western | Magazine
11-20: Discussion of religion in 1948 | World civilization | Curriculum committee | Nature of man and non western culture curriculum | Bert Cook | Intensive program | Graduate program
21-30: Gertrude took a years leave | Claire deddie(?) | The “Teacher Do’s” - What does a good teacher do? | Teacher shortage | Intensive program was set up to ease the teacher shortage | Graduate courses | Teaching certificate
Tape 2 side A - Gertrude Braun
00-10: Nature of man | Martha Pounce(?) | Everything was built around the William James textbook | Nature of man became too big a part of the curriculum | Non-western was kept as a requirement | Students were made to recognize other cultures than the west
11-20: Catholics | Legislature | (?) University in California | Bill Keel left because he was afraid something was going to happen to the state pension | Business program - Transcription
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Side A
00;00;00;21 - 00;00;08;16
Unknown
Gertrude Braun conducted on November 24th, 1998.
00;00;08;19 - 00;00;38;15
Unknown
Well, I. I just wondered why you came to us. What? What was it about the place and what was it about your life that that was right? Well, I want. The reason I came was that I wanted to get into teacher preparation, and I was offered a job in the lab school, and I came. My first year here, I taught fifth grade.
00;00;38;18 - 00;01;12;28
Unknown
During that year, I discovered that, that the Jenkins who then was the president. Brought me cause one of the real characters. The faculty against a certain Joe was going to retire retiring. For me, he brought me to be, here and, get what you like left. So I moved. I didn't know it, though, until,
00;01;13;00 - 00;01;43;07
Unknown
Then middle of the year. So the last school assignment was just, temporary. One, from his point of view, was a stopgap. From my point of view, I really it wasn't. Had you just graduated from school? I had, no, I graduated in 1940. Okay. Got my master's from Yale in 44. And then when no work, did you go to State University?
00;01;43;10 - 00;02;23;09
Unknown
I went to were southern. What was that? New Haven state teachers, guys. You from New Haven? I grew up, at Hamden. Applied. I actually was born in Iowa. And how long were you in grad? I went to kindergarten there and I went to first grade in New London. You're working your way down the coast here in New Haven for, for actually go back there one year.
00;02;23;12 - 00;02;53;16
Unknown
And in that year I was, I went into second grade. They put me back to first because this is the kid who could read in kindergarten, but I can't remember whether I did the manuscript. And they the person said, you write, I think, with them. Yeah. Then they discovered very quickly that that wasn't really a good idea, but it meant that that first grade.
00;02;53;18 - 00;03;20;27
Unknown
So they moved me into a combination second and third grade. Well into what I loved in the second grade, after about a month, the teacher put me on the third. So in that one year I was saw the first, third or and then, then we moved to him. I said, when did you think you wanted to be a teacher?
00;03;20;29 - 00;03;55;05
Unknown
Always. Did you ever. Never. Anything else I ever wanted to. And it was always history or so. So social sciences was my deep interest. But I was prepared, initially and in, for elementary, was a Clinton corporation. And I got into history formally. Well I would say well okay. You know at Yale you got your masters in, in history or in education or.
00;03;55;07 - 00;04;26;20
Unknown
Well generally they do require that you do it in self-defense though their courses at the time I took my masters were set up on eight credit unions. And you did for, say, and so every one of them was fairly lengthy. So, so you chose your own emphasis building from, from there and you. Sounds like an ideal.
00;04;26;26 - 00;04;53;12
Unknown
Oh, it was so, yeah. Of course Yale no longer. I went in through the Department of Education, but, they you really worked in the history department problem. That was urged by both to stay for my doctorate. And, of course, I did get my doctorate at Yale. Now, do you remember any of the people you had at Yale?
00;04;53;13 - 00;05;35;15
Unknown
Yeah. Gabriel was the one in history. That Hill was chairman of the Ed Department and a really famous educator. We worked with him. We worked with him, in the, Fairfield program that they had, in preparation of college graduates to be teachers. Okay. And of course, I ran the internship program and then, so over the years, your contacts with that.
00;05;35;18 - 00;06;02;17
Unknown
Well, were you came to Danbury in 1945, taught in elementary school. And although I would say you're don't tell me about the Roberts Avenue school or what wasn't or was the school building which I taught is no longer standing. It was for SAP and. Oh, okay. Roberts was built. Oh. I was on leave for the year.
00;06;02;17 - 00;06;33;21
Unknown
I was in New York and go from there. Now, did they use Bob forth as the only, fourth? Locust Avenue? No, the one that now they, the alternative high school. We had one. I came to one room schools, one in my report and one, you know, playing. Okay, I guess Truman mentioned that he did one to his practice teaching in one of those schools.
00;06;33;23 - 00;07;16;23
Unknown
You know, about what was the urban school? Well, so. So was Locust. Oh, okay. Yeah. What was the school like? Well, architecturally. Well, both architecturally, it probably looks like Locust. There was a it was a K through old school. Actually the, the schools that were lab schools were not part of the Danbury system. The college, they were operated by the college.
00;07;16;25 - 00;07;51;13
Unknown
College control curriculum and operated with a contract to, to quote the children. And in the what was the regular school district? But the city had nothing to do with the operation of the schools. Now, was this, economical frequency? I mean, they were saving money by doing it or I don't I really don't know. The,
00;07;51;16 - 00;08;01;08
Unknown
And the contract was canceled.
00;08;01;11 - 00;08;51;06
Unknown
Sometime around the point, where Abbots Avenue school were open, that was still under the contract, but that school was built by the city, but we weren't too far into it. I was working with graduate students at that point, and for the most part, no, the contract was being squashed. Called teachers and they left schools at that point had the option to stay state employees, or until the city become city employees.
00;08;51;09 - 00;09;18;17
Unknown
And it meant some and some of them chose to be city employees. Which put them under a totally different pension system. That's a strange. Well, they had more service and they teachers for retirement. Okay. They could have stayed though. And the teachers retirement, remained state employees. They. So it was a crazy quilt.
00;09;18;17 - 00;09;57;01
Unknown
The other thing for a while, but no, when you were teaching there at the bottom Fourth Avenue, you taught all classes of fifth grade, those fifth grade, and one subject or no teacher. Everything. The total. What was the ethnic mix of the neighborhood that I wish I could tell you? Yankee. Well, the Fourth Avenue school covered. The neighborhood, included the neighborhood, the,
00;09;57;03 - 00;10;38;24
Unknown
Is now the walled garden. So, so economically, the top of the school ran through that. We had. The building, for classrooms on each for. Oh, okay. And, principal's office. And there was an annex in which the kindergarten and first grade. So that it was a small wooden building. Even then, they had to do that.
00;10;38;27 - 00;11;19;08
Unknown
They actually, when I came in, like school teachers outnumbered the academic professors. So that, how many were there, would you say lab school at that. Was it or were. Well so. Well 25 one and there weren't 25 faculty tackled. So it's not unusual. Don't think that. Yeah. So the lab school teachers and the any faculty about could carry shall do well on several cases.
00;11;19;09 - 00;11;26;25
Unknown
My goodness. Who was principal of the bottom. But, his name was black. My.
00;11;26;27 - 00;11;59;06
Unknown
The he and I crossed for more than one school cause I, I was in the vanguard of what in those days was called as jury. Sure. Yeah. And he was a big boy. I wasn't alone among the teachers. But, he really was old school. Been there a while, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He retired very soon after I came.
00;11;59;13 - 00;12;25;29
Unknown
Do you remember any of the other teachers? Oh, yeah. They one of them. The first grade teacher. Belonged to, the investment group that the women, the pawn shop or whatever. They go to bed had one. I didn't bother them. And it. Yeah. Well, the men wouldn't let us in, so we thought that was that.
00;12;25;29 - 00;12;28;05
Unknown
Right?
00;12;28;08 - 00;13;16;05
Unknown
And we made for the very. Yeah. Well, that's the point. Yeah. But they, But I lived in Bethel for 16 years before I bought a house in Bethel. And, my landlady was a member of F and Robert Chapman in Locust after school. And then she went to Robert's when Locust. Locust became just like a junior high and very, and then became part of the and moved early to and the experimental school.
00;13;16;05 - 00;13;48;27
Unknown
I say okay, but, there were several people who were really characters that had initial faculty that, Claire Getty's came the year before I did the teaching in the school. She she was in things and, the, l yeah, that was was, still overseas when, when I went to Danbury, but I had. No.
00;13;48;27 - 00;14;46;03
Unknown
Now, what was the first or teacher in the high school I graduated from? I have another, so I knew, well before I went to them. The some, Immediately after he got that, he was in our school, I said, during the war. And he came here after, you know, he came to Danbury and 38 who left Hamden High School and went to Danbury, as, so said, I see he's probably the longest, goes back the furthest in terms of teachers who were still, around active.
00;14;46;05 - 00;15;26;20
Unknown
Yeah, I, I'm sure he was. I, I know there are still people who taught in the lamp school, alive, but, they're younger than I now. And they were not. They were nearly as long as Vermont. So I don't think there's anyone still alive or who went as the Congress was, but, Yeah. Well, now, Augustus, she started, she retired, and I went in.
00;15;26;23 - 00;16;01;28
Unknown
We did you know her? Well, I knew her slightly. She was, the one who had set up the. I don't know what they called her, but, You. Oh, oh. Dinner called who were hotel green ringing really very noted speakers. And also, there was saying no mention in the paper and, but she did a lot of that too, and she ought to speak in public groups.
00;16;02;00 - 00;16;39;03
Unknown
And she, I was very active in comparable things, in New Haven, and we came up to those meetings. So I actually, as a student, I met, Kay Augusta, the play Augusta lived and stayed. And then after she retired and, she wanted to continue running things that she well, she, she was a strong.
00;16;39;06 - 00;17;14;29
Unknown
So that was true. A lot of both old faculty, music teacher Ruth developed some go, well, she really ended up being the first chair of the music department. There were no departments when I came. Oh, how was the school? So, just, how did that. That's why everyone else. You had a president with us.
00;17;14;29 - 00;17;56;00
Unknown
Was the dean okay? And Dick being born at that point, not housemother. That much more than it meant. And the academic as well, you know, I don't know who set up the school. I don't, you know, I came out of the registrar's office and the registrar was also the secretary. The president. Secretary? And those were the key administrators, the president, the secretary of the year and then the dean.
00;17;56;02 - 00;18;31;14
Unknown
Yeah. Or the officially. Yeah. But, the year I moved over, then to the college was the year that after Jenkins died. Yes. And I happened to be, liberal and was saying he drop dead in his office is, his secretary who was a new secretary because the registrar was doing nothing but registrar. Went running for office.
00;18;31;14 - 00;19;08;21
Unknown
Harsh. Ruth grabbed me because I was there to and could drive to take his secretary home because it just washed out. Yeah. And he already died, and. Oh, he was dead. Well, he was Danbury Day at the Danbury Fair for all that. He had been to the Rotary Club luncheon with the governor, who always came on.
00;19;08;24 - 00;19;37;29
Unknown
Time back, I think he walked back from lunch, got in his office and had a massive heart down. He wasn't very old or wasn't at the well. He. I really can't. I can't remember his old. Well, now, you mentioned a couple of key people here, want you to lose. You thought about can you describe maybe the the president?
00;19;37;29 - 00;20;30;29
Unknown
What was he like? Jenkins. He he was a very nice guy. Not really. An innovator, but not unwilling to happen on stage. I had met him. I had done, a small pamphlet. For junior high kids. Connecticut biography. And one of the things that I had reviewed was his doctoral dissertation, which was on family fun.
00;20;31;01 - 00;21;12;20
Unknown
He, he came to one of the. Classes that I presented material to for that, I can't remember that was at Yale. And he his degree was from Yale. That was how he met me. And that's scouting. And even though I think he notes and it was shortly thereafter that I was asked to come to Danbury and I've offered to job and put but no.
00;21;12;20 - 00;21;34;22
Unknown
Was he, how did he run the school? Was it a kind of distant thing, or was he very much hands? Well, it was a small. The old main was the college. The, there were.
00;21;34;24 - 00;22;26;09
Unknown
12 classrooms, you know, they had John, a librarian, and. One the Don was there that, this hill or anything else on campus that that I'm not. But shortly after Rufus became president, we got a whole Quonset hut. Whoa. Oh, I think it became the student union, student center, bookstore, lunch place. You know, I did a little research there to answer a question, and it was originally listed in the catalog under the name of a student.
00;22;26;11 - 00;22;55;11
Unknown
I can't remember. And then it became Memorial Hall. The a building that is more of a student union with. Right. But up until that point, I'm kind of thinking of that. It's an Irish name, Crowley Hall. Yeah. Ring a bell? And. Okay. Yeah. He was, a student who died during as a student was killed. Okay.
00;22;55;13 - 00;23;32;16
Unknown
But not as a more casual number one. Did you some student? I remember going out. Lived in Waterbury, and, I remember taking a bus load of kids to. Not the funeral, but to be calling one. Okay. Not fun. No, I, I would think so. Well, I didn't mean to sidetrack, but I did that question just suddenly it appeared on the new student union with the term student center.
00;23;32;17 - 00;24;05;21
Unknown
Several faculty who said to me, what happened to Memorial Hall? I said, I don't know. I don't even know what it's a memorial to, it was called. Claire will be able to give you much more detail on this, but when the original Memorial Hall, when the first studio was built, the roof us did not want it to carry one students.
00;24;05;22 - 00;24;38;06
Unknown
Small. And so she said, we'll make it a memorial hall and then get memorializes every everybody who may need. Yeah. I think about the plaque. That's that's 000 answer the question. Yeah, I bothered some people because they don't think it's right to take the Memorial Hall off the building and make it just student centers. Well, it's the prerogative of the board, I guess.
00;24;38;13 - 00;24;59;01
Unknown
Oh, I guess nobody even thought about it. I, I imagine they just don't think it was a conscious thing. But I get it in some of Morrill Hall. No, it's it's, called the student Center. Right. Oh, and there's a sign in front. So students. So,
00;24;59;03 - 00;25;35;05
Unknown
At least that's a minor mystery. Yeah. It's now solved. The the naming of, buildings. Unless the the regs have changed. All's the prerogative of the board. Recommendation of the whatever procedure is set up around the campus. Yeah. So I think you're right that it may be that student center has been made up for a campus designation for that function.
00;25;35;07 - 00;26;01;29
Unknown
That could be, I don't know, I, I kind of thought it was just a burden, you know, but maybe there is a. I had no idea it was made. That would my guess would that whatever has happened, has happened during a gym road test for the head. So he'd be able to answer how the name got to this, got to get what it is.
00;26;01;29 - 00;26;29;19
Unknown
So when I started to dig into it a little bit and I saw curly all and then no more, then the switch to Memorial Hall, I, I just was curious always. Hall was the who got the and that was a temporary building was right to disappear. It was only when it became a permanent building that we both decided, no, we could not get to it.
00;26;29;22 - 00;26;59;08
Unknown
Oh. Well, now let's get back to when you started your college. All right. In the in the old name. Who were the other faculty members along with you? And what was it like? Well, as I said, Bruce de Villafranca and he was it, what was he like? Oh, I like a real artist. And, a very.
00;26;59;11 - 00;27;50;11
Unknown
The organ, they actually had a couple of warring factions. So that is it. No, no. But the they were the faculty was mainly women. And I, I'm only talking about the academic program, and Kay Augusta Sutton didn't work. They called. Oh, some people kind of fell in between. Weren't any part of that or Florentines. Was the psychology professor, and she was around for a long time.
00;27;50;13 - 00;27;56;16
Unknown
And she was very good.
00;27;56;18 - 00;28;44;23
Unknown
Jesse. Well, a man was school of equivalent of the superintendent of schools for the lab schools. He was kind of overshadowed by nature. Who was the director of student teaching? Major would came to Camden for. I was teaching at the time that I was being offered the job to come into my classroom. I didn't know who she was, but principal told who she introduced.
00;28;44;25 - 00;29;04;02
Unknown
She went to my desk, sat down. And the next thing I know, she is on the desk. I, and has who went to school out?
00;29;04;05 - 00;29;36;15
Unknown
She was up. Oh. The way you kept your class register. And I happened to be teaching in a school where the principal was a boy. That was all the way up to. They also have issues looking at them to, I think, the cluster that, you know, but I did amazement that someone coming in to a classroom would have the temerity.
00;29;36;16 - 00;30;05;17
Unknown
That's rude. Really? But, you know, she was behaving as though she were, her own, one of the rural schools, looking up, one of her lab school teachers. What what they were doing. That's the approach you used. Yeah. Well, did you get to know her? I got to know her very well. And actually was very fond of her.
00;30;05;19 - 00;30;42;08
Unknown
She was, old New England Yankee. Hello. Well, college. She was wonderful to students. One of the big funds in the alumni association is to make sure what your. I know, I know, her big scholarship, but, yeah, her real. And she did everything to help kids get jobs. I remember I got the, post.
00;30;42;08 - 00;30;57;28
Unknown
The war was going on. Suddenly we needed teachers, not the other way around. But she had been there through all the years. When helping kids get jobs was an important, She grew up pretty much. -
Side B
00;00;00;20 - 00;00;44;06
Unknown
Graduate. The teachers, if you had a little more time. The old boy that worked was not really that big a deal. Then around the damper, I was the old girl with, you know, where most of the faculty women at. Yeah. Yeah. The, Mr. Pearl, I think, Grant Finch was the geography. The reason I'm having some difficulty, this is that I came and also came across this, and there was a way.
00;00;44;13 - 00;01;18;10
Unknown
Okay, I have no. And then. So I really can't, transition. And, fuel over a very short period of time. Carl. Patterns. Oh, no. So Carl was a teacher originally. I had an administrator. He would I normally later when the, College got. Well, let me go back to when Ruth was named acting president.
00;01;18;10 - 00;01;30;20
Unknown
When Doctor Jenkins died and there was no officially prayers of them, never any surgery and just kind of an order.
00;01;30;22 - 00;02;10;04
Unknown
They, The board knew her. No one on campus was consulted. They, And the appointment remembered. The board at that time was the state board of Ed. The the state board. We have two boards. Connecticut. At this point. Okay. The state Board of Education, the University of Connecticut Board of Trustees, the state board of Grand was responsible for all the public schools and Connecticut.
00;02;10;06 - 00;02;51;03
Unknown
Okay. Because the teachers colleges spread into them, prepare people for the day, for the board, for for us. Okay, I see. And it wasn't until, I would have to look up the, not good on dates. The they set up a commission on higher education. That commission came the decision to remove the state colleges, which by then had become multiple.
00;02;51;06 - 00;03;26;02
Unknown
Okay. So, from the public schools, the board of all and create their own. I said, okay, we responsible for the Commission on Higher Education. So we got today's overall structure at that point, but I can't remember the exact full, but we know that, well, I know Carl was in a graduate studies by that.
00;03;26;10 - 00;03;38;03
Unknown
We both were so. I got my doctorate from 64.
00;03;38;06 - 00;04;05;22
Unknown
Okay. And and. No, but all those things, we could look up. Yeah. Well, but it was after I had finished my doctor's degree and was running the intensive program as part of the graduate school, Carl and I worked together. We became dean of graduate studies, which is what he was when I got there. And I was academic dean.
00;04;05;24 - 00;04;39;21
Unknown
Yeah, we were appointed. It's the same the same day. Oh, I was there. Yeah, I got the undergraduate. He got to graduate. Okay. All right. And, but cook was dean of the college, which, eventually became academic vice president of the board of trustees. Wouldn't approve that title for Eastern or Western. We were the small campus, so he never got that.
00;04;39;21 - 00;05;16;29
Unknown
He left Danda to go to, his person on the post. Yes, I remember that. Yeah. And, so the title was withheld. It, it, say Kilkeel was hired to replace for. And it was during his tenure that academic vice president became they offered him title well, now you're back in 1945. You're starting at 46.
00;05;16;29 - 00;06;06;27
Unknown
It started at the college, and you were teaching history. History, the whole question? No. There was one other person. Paul. Is this. And I should be able to say, he left us for free, and Karl replaced him. He who was the editor of the social Sciences, magazine called Todd Gould. He could have brought the, editorial together to damper us with the letter, because I don't want to burn as it is.
00;06;06;28 - 00;06;34;07
Unknown
The tension is the head. I don't know. He was a marvelous teacher, a great guy. His wife was an artist. As far as I know, Gladys was still living. They live on the Cape, but Paul had stuff. Okay. But they, Oh, he was there when I came. So he and I were the two people teaching in that history.
00;06;34;10 - 00;07;17;09
Unknown
Oh. And I also taught geography because grand century time, you know. So she sure did it every day. That was the curriculum prescribed for all the schools. And and I mean, all of all for the day. Very shortly after Bruce became president, the board. And it's still below the that assigned special programs to the individual colleges. That's when we got music, for seven.
00;07;17;11 - 00;07;53;00
Unknown
Oh, God. Physical ed and special ed. But southern had had special ed anyhow. They, I forget what central. Well, Lake Central was the only secondary ed. If what I started up new Hope. I was going to have after three years and then go to central, if I wanted the bachelor's degree.
00;07;53;02 - 00;08;16;21
Unknown
But the year I was a sophomore, all of the colleges were made for you. Right. So. So then everybody had to send go to sign up for the last. Well, they didn't have to go for the last 2 or 3 years. What about confession? Get a teaching test. But if you wanted the if you wanted that you grew.
00;08;16;24 - 00;08;49;20
Unknown
If you wanted this thing, you know. You remember anything else about the teaching part of it, about the faculty. And. But you mentioned those power groups. What was the division? Well, of personality or it was partly personality. It was partly a philosophy of, of what education was all about. There was a good bit of a legal system on that.
00;08;49;23 - 00;09;26;04
Unknown
Well, that well, you know, it still is true. Yeah. There are a lot of teachers who are elitist who, some of the kids they teach suffer from that. The I was just that way to attract the best students, because the students were the ones who were the group. So the arguments were over, more, demanding and, yeah.
00;09;26;06 - 00;09;59;08
Unknown
And also the arguments were getting almost every faculty member had some extra curricular activities, and they all were grabbing some of the best students. What did you do as your, Well, the stream club or or social science and, the time that I was moving in the, we got into what we call the mock legislature.
00;09;59;11 - 00;10;45;11
Unknown
All the colleges in the state. And I sponsored that group, and I sponsored an international relations club, which was kind of the remnants of what take us to certain had this was her main interest. Yeah. And, she did a lot of traveling, evidently to was I don't, I don't know, the state. She, I knew her as someone who had just retired, who was, really trying to she was still trying to hold me around.
00;10;45;13 - 00;11;21;03
Unknown
Well, so that was, you know, I was young and but, I, I admired her. I could live with that, but, and also. Yeah. Yeah. But, how long did you teach at a soldier? Took a leave of absence. Yeah. Fifth day through. I was 54 when I got my degree. In, 50 spring.
00;11;21;05 - 00;11;59;28
Unknown
Or knowledge 56 when I got my degree. When I came back after my leave of absence, I went back into my, teaching hall. Well, and my previous personal contribution to the history, social sciences, I'm the one who introduced on talked about Western culture. Is that right? That's one of the greatest things we do. I don't I think it's fine, but the real contribution that someone to to the.
00;11;59;28 - 00;12;30;24
Unknown
Yeah, I, how did it come about? Well, I didn't have a syllabus given to me for a course that I had to teach. I just decided I was not going to go back to ancient history and work my way through. Well, you can't do I. Yeah. One was a new a course, but you can't do it here.
00;12;30;26 - 00;13;05;17
Unknown
So I decided I was going to make it a cultures course. And, I have always had a deep interest in religion as also an area of religious person. But. But the role of religion. So I took each of the girl we went to the segment at that over a period of the year. Now what year was that.
00;13;05;18 - 00;13;43;20
Unknown
You remember about when did I did it start? I started that before I went to Columbia. So it was 48. It wouldn't be reflected really in the catalog. They didn't they didn't change the title. What did they call it? It was world. Civilization, I think. But it what had been done in it was very much was to ancient history, but all Western not.
00;13;43;20 - 00;14;15;15
Unknown
Do you remember how it all Western? Yeah. With some Western civilization. They gave it, of course. So you broadened it to all these other groups? I for a first time, I did it move into close to what we have now, special courses and. Well, if you could use me and, when I finished my doctorate, always made curricula, maybe travel.
00;14;15;18 - 00;15;01;16
Unknown
That curriculum that I went to work, developing, a general core program. That's where nature planned. Okay. And as part of that. Bus terminal curriculum committee, we. I figured much better to go the one course. One civilization. I sold it to the committee, so I ended up with it. One course. I can't remember how many star.
00;15;01;18 - 00;15;31;20
Unknown
But, the department would added two other things. I they never jettisoned the concept that that's true. And that's something that I hope we don't do or I hope they'll never do it. But it was the thing that Bambury did that long before that. Any of the other colleges in the area were doing it. That's a very important.
00;15;31;20 - 00;16;03;27
Unknown
And I repeat, I feel I push my biggest cut ever. Did this come out of your personal interests or things to do? Were learning in your Ph.D. program or a part with, but mainly, out of my own conviction. What's the got? Who? And then I had the freedom to do it. Students loved it. Yes, they suddenly.
00;16;03;29 - 00;16;34;07
Unknown
Social studies, history meant something to. Not the Greeks and Romans, anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And then, like, go back to the Greeks and Romans. Before they had. They had a perspective to look at. Yes. But it's not just that time. Right? Right. I think that's a marvelous thought that all was the same curriculum committee that the main command ultimately took the overall example of it.
00;16;34;11 - 00;17;02;17
Unknown
Okay. Nature of man, the non-Western culture, all of them came through as the pattern for the curriculum. All right. Now, if you remember, this seems like a really pivotal time when what was the curriculum that's lasted a long time? Yeah. Very distinctive ways to, when we're talking about the early. We came back from Columbia right in, where I got the degree in 56.
00;17;02;19 - 00;17;20;25
Unknown
So I stopped teaching before that in Cisco, and that was after I got the degree that I was moved into the graduate program during the the,
00;17;20;28 - 00;17;52;15
Unknown
Really? The program for college graduates to try to work meet the teacher shortage following the war. So. Okay. Well, I just I don't know whether we've given enough attention. Your graduate program. I don't I don't want to forget that. When did you decide to do that? How did you work that out? Well, actually, I didn't so much decide as I was assigned.
00;17;52;18 - 00;18;31;19
Unknown
But we was a good cook. Was the one who moved here at Ruth was president, but it was Bert decision that I should take over the, internship program and the graduate program. It was set up as all four colleges. It was. It all was the same overall campus. Right? And Carl set it up. That day.
00;18;31;21 - 00;19;14;08
Unknown
But he had counterpart and the A level three colleges and, because the intensive program was a gradual program, Carl and, who had been one thing who messed up shortly after Ruth, football president, one of the guys came back. So we were they got football. Departments were created, by qualified had left. Carl Petr became the first true, social science department and all.
00;19;14;16 - 00;19;52;03
Unknown
Paul and I worked together from the time he arrived. But he came about the same time a little bit later, a little later, I who we came maybe three years after I did two years of in the college, one the lab school. So we went to departments called Bert could you know what the rules were for cook very soon after she became president because she needed help.
00;19;52;04 - 00;20;29;11
Unknown
Yeah, right. And she hired Clare Gettys in the dorm to do what she had been doing as dean of women for, Clare can give you more information on some of, the, the amount of time, because I was not at that point involved in the students. Right? Right. Like I was on the academic side. Carl and I, well, we never lost touch even after he retired.
00;20;29;13 - 00;21;03;17
Unknown
Oh, I know the last time he was here, I saw him. He'd call every once in a while. He's a real gentleman. Yeah, but, well, he was a good friend. Warm. Up the. He remarried. His wife died. After they had gone back to Michigan and, he married the widow of one of his Notre Dame class personnel.
00;21;03;17 - 00;21;32;15
Unknown
Right? Oh, well, so. And she died soon after he did? Yeah. Not too long ago. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he died in March. That's what I thought. Yeah. And I guess she died in, the summer that I know she died because of Stacy. For Stacy is the only one who ever built the set up. Oh, is that right?
00;21;32;17 - 00;22;02;27
Unknown
Well, she was from, Iowa. Iowa. And so. Stacy. Oh. Oh, Stacy. What? By the way, there, she called me, and I gave her Doctor Patterson's address, so I did, and she got. She met him. She called. I had lunch one day, anyhow. So you had decided that you needed your doctor, that you were going to do that intensive.
00;22;02;29 - 00;22;26;05
Unknown
Oh. I had the doctor before he decided I should run it. Okay. All right. But I was wondering about, how you managed to get work on your doctor, right? With each of. Was that a. Well, I also remember how I took a year's leave for a,
00;22;26;08 - 00;23;02;21
Unknown
Took course work one year. And the distinction of having a, placing I. My first two courses were independent study first two. Well, I took the. Well, when Ruth first became president, she wanted to do something. Course. So from.
00;23;02;24 - 00;23;43;14
Unknown
Everybody wants me to get new windows. Oh, yes. Of no. Are your driveways still at that level anyway? The, Ruth Crawford stratify? Some Columbia Teachers college. And as a consultant, and at the first year after she had been officially called of not just acting president, it was formed stratum, who got, curriculum attention rolling in in Denver.
00;23;43;17 - 00;24;18;23
Unknown
Claude getting served on the committee that worked with Warren Edwards, who is was in science and now living in New Hampshire. Was chairman of the committee. So Claire can give you more details, but, how that committee worked then it's the committee that developed the teacher dues. We never heard of them. Well, the, that that.
00;24;18;25 - 00;24;50;25
Unknown
What does a good teacher do? Oh, and a from what the faculty came up with, as a manager who the curriculum was directed, that was very good idea. That was fine. There's still a copy of that anywhere that I was the same size that. Well, the the when I left the library at copy yourself. That's all right.
00;24;50;27 - 00;25;23;12
Unknown
I don't think I do, but, Claire may very well, that's an important document. Well, because it reflects the thinking of the faculty at that, that point. But that faculty is not the one I joined. That faculty is the. The overturn of all the people was gone. You had all this young influx, with the guys coming back.
00;25;23;13 - 00;25;59;00
Unknown
It was. It really was. We were famous as an institution for our teacher education programs, where people visit us from everywhere. But there was an exciting time. It was in Florence Square at the time, my, doctoral advisor. I worked with her. So when I wanted to do a particular study, I forget now what it was. She knew the college.
00;25;59;03 - 00;26;27;22
Unknown
She know me? Slightly. She gave me, she said, okay, go ahead, do it. So this is how I said she was your, your mentor to read this, you know. Now did you do your study, on the college or. Yeah, it was really it was an outgrowth of the two to do working with one of the classes that I taught.
00;26;27;24 - 00;27;04;17
Unknown
What? They were looking for more education. So. Oh, see how they compare? Very interesting. Okay. But they, Then, after we moved through the teacher do sport, we went into major revision of the, general ed program. Now, by that time, you have more freedom. Yeah. We had the nature of man coming in, but the non-Western.
00;27;04;19 - 00;27;44;28
Unknown
And then at that point, when Nature Man came in, you were with this intensive yes program. Tell me about that. And the intensive program. The intensive program was set up again, all for colleges from to, as a way to ease the teacher shortage. The idea was that college graduates who are interested in teaching. We had, well, we had the seven sisters from the very beginning.
00;27;44;28 - 00;28;26;29
Unknown
Well, top colleges, the women who have young Sam, the school, that wanted their schedules to, that somehow they stayed with their kids. They came in with the program was relatively simple. The first summer we operated Roberts up in the school as a summer school. Kindergarten through grade eight. The children came, the part they.
00;28;26;29 - 00;29;01;10
Unknown
I'm sure it was wonderful day care for, families where both people were working, but the children were not sent. They chose to come right. Or we operated the school for six weeks. The program for the students was eight weeks, and they had, And the school was only in the morning. Then they had theory classes open along with us.
00;29;01;12 - 00;29;43;01
Unknown
And they learn by doing. Then they got jobs. So just for one summer was the to get em to together with school. Yeah. That were supervised by the college as well as by the school school system. Right. They continued they had a 30 credit program. The summer was eight credits. The oh was 32, and, they had to take they had to do six hours a year until they completed.
00;29;43;04 - 00;30;28;05
Unknown
And they could do it summers, or they could do it at the academic. And they were graduate courses. So when they finished, they got their teaching certificate. And if they wrote a thesis master's degree, many of them stayed in occupation. Were five. How long did that program run? Ran, through the 50s. Okay.
00;30;28;07 - 00;30;33;15
Unknown
In.
00;30;33;17 - 00;30;57;09
Unknown
Them went pretty well into the 60s. Okay. Now, you headed it for the big. Yeah. Well, I had had it until I became academic dean. And then I went back working with the undergraduate program. What was that? What was that?
00;30;57;11 - 00;30;58;07
Unknown
Take the course. -
Side C
00;00;00;03 - 00;00;24;13
Unknown
60s. I don't remember the example that I went became academic dean. No. That would bring Nature Man back into the period where you were with the intensive program. Well, really? Yeah. There is one person.
00;00;24;16 - 00;01;02;04
Unknown
Still around. You've met Martha Koch. Oh, sure. She worked in the initial teaching of nature of Man. Oh, cool. So if you want to talk in detail about the way that it was to teach. Yes. I think it's important to do that. They. She would be. She's the only one that I am sure is around in the Bay area.
00;01;02;06 - 00;01;20;29
Unknown
You know, I put that tape in without asking, you know, whether we were going too long or how we were doing. Are you running down. I'm walking down the. You know what we have to do. Trudy is just do it next week. That would be easier. I just I was so interested in. Why don't we do that?
00;01;21;00 - 00;02;07;26
Unknown
Why don't we talk about nature, man? And then we've got a ton of things that we can we can do the next time, if you don't mind. No. This is a very, very good. Really? The nature of man started out, as a two year long team talk sections. What had your ideas come from? Was that what. Came out of the exploration of what students should be exposed to, and how to expose for that?
00;02;07;28 - 00;02;45;14
Unknown
For the one thing I really remember about that first year. Nature of man was they had a textbook and it was one of William James books. And everything was there around it, and they took turns doing the lecturing to the large group. And then they had the small group. You know, was there someone particularly Martha was involved in the planning of it or the teaching of teaching of it.
00;02;45;17 - 00;03;21;11
Unknown
They actually took the, the planning of it came really from the curriculum committee. We, we went off on weekend. We've got a book club, had a place in coal room, Massachusetts. There we'd go off for, weekend to room just to kick ideas around and how many on that group came of age group? Remember?
00;03;21;13 - 00;04;00;20
Unknown
Others? Yeah, I'm Terry James. The board served. I would, I chaired, but Burke was on it. I can't remember there were people from all of the disciplines on it. Most of them. I no longer, you know, around. Yeah. The. And so. And, I really. That sounds to me like it's a very important group, though, in terms of shaping the place.
00;04;00;23 - 00;04;39;07
Unknown
Are we likely? Yeah. But the formal curriculum committee meetings were not so much the place where things happened as these retreats retreat. How often would that be? Three times a year. The everybody was really gung ho for it. That's terrific. Yeah. And of course, we do have some parts of the nature of man salvage for.
00;04;39;09 - 00;04;45;14
Unknown
Like many things, the,
00;04;45;16 - 00;05;36;28
Unknown
Things can get into a rut. Half the one of the real movers and shakers. The nature of man was full blown. He left us to go to, Manchester as the first president of Manchester community College. He was in the English department. And, here, from the he. As president of Manchester, he taught a couple of course, struggles, which I will tell you a little about what Fred Lowe was like, but he was one of the real spirits and that of the real movers and shakers.
00;05;37;00 - 00;06;06;26
Unknown
Jim Timmons in the art was another one of them. Younger, most of them. And really eager to do better. Yeah. To try things. It almost seems like in every institution there periods where that could happen. Yeah. Chemistry. Right. Let's see. The the chemistry is right. And there is someone in the leadership. Who wants it.
00;06;06;26 - 00;06;44;19
Unknown
That is. What? Yeah. Is hasn't decided what's supposed to happen, but really wants to. So actually, if you ask me, what did Ruth Haas want most? She wanted a challenging education for the students. She wanted a faculty that put students first. That really was what it was all. She didn't tell people what to do. No.
00;06;44;19 - 00;07;13;29
Unknown
She didn't. I can say that. Oh. And she brought people in to start. Yeah. Well, that's. You want to call it quits? You think? I mean, they. Unless you got a couple more things you want to ask, particularly about the nature of man. See, I never thought. Now you hired particularly to, to to staff that I guess.
00;07;14;02 - 00;07;52;14
Unknown
Yeah, sure. I got at one point we did the OPM, you know. Unfortunately part of the problem was it became the tail the, the dog, because it was too big a piece of the program. It was too. And once you have people teaching who. Were not experimenting as they did it, were not learning with the kids.
00;07;52;16 - 00;08;39;03
Unknown
That was really the crux of the whole thing. We'll explore this together. And everybody, everybody. We're pioneers. Yeah. Yeah. When it becomes a formula, it doesn't work, does it? Yeah. They, That's why I felt so good about growing up. Western blog kept as a requirement, but a variety of people could be teaching them, and, but the one thing that was preserved was the students had to face the fact that there are other cultures, and Western.
00;08;39;05 - 00;09;13;19
Unknown
They're a little more concerned about where that's going now, because we have a lot of vacancies in those areas. You know, since Truman left, we don't have any one person that tenure retired, and we don't have any China person at all. So I'm hoping that that at that, they here, and this will be the last I really think departments have to call for a lot of shots, but I think giving them the power to call all shots is a mistake.
00;09;13;20 - 00;09;43;00
Unknown
I think you're right. They do, because it becomes everybody's. Oh yeah. Well then turf becomes such an important. Yeah. Right. And that the overall influence of the place and that was the thing that we really did do back in that period of a it was.
00;09;43;02 - 00;10;23;00
Unknown
Looked at oh, new ways for kids to work. Not for the faculty to get their trophies or to be able to teach their favorite there. Yes. Yes. And well, you know, I think there are some good signs I think is still living, but he had been president. Bob Easter, his rapport with the other, with the presidents whose intimate knowledge of the cultures.
00;10;23;03 - 00;11;06;12
Unknown
And he was an experiment. He was undoubtedly the most experimental of the presidents after, following this angle, moved into the commissioners job instead of being President Obama. He was my president. Okay. And, they but Gene Smith was, someone who wanted to try everything. Who was the. I remember when Gloria Bell was hired, she actually was still in the convent, but.
00;11;06;14 - 00;11;34;24
Unknown
And arrived in them, nuns. God. Because they were going it that the reason she left the order was that the order wouldn't permit her to stay at West. She was granted tenure, and the order was telling her to come back to Albertus. She didn't want to go back. Isn't that? And so she left to order.
00;11;34;27 - 00;12;15;21
Unknown
Oh, I didn't realize that she was still in the order. At which point. Yeah, but Ruth went to John Smith. Was miscast. Yeah. Very sensitive about anybody. She never would permit her. No one in campus. All she wanted, nobody assuming. And it would have been erroneous assumption that she was proselytize pro Catholic in the academic sense. So she went to church, but instead, who was not that.
00;12;15;24 - 00;12;24;00
Unknown
What's wrong with helping with the faculty? I think it's a great time to.
00;12;24;03 - 00;13;08;19
Unknown
All Jim would say was the, Exposure to it. Sure. Yes. Which is what education is all about. Oh my God. So he was I well, first secretary to the board. And, having Jean there made it a very easy transition. Then after Jean retired, it was, Frost. Jim Foster man. Jim had grown up in the context of the New York, system.
00;13;08;22 - 00;13;50;29
Unknown
So he had come through the same evolution. But now, by the time that person, Tom, the board was different, the expectation of the communities were different. And so it's a different world, and it's one that, I, I was urged to apply for, the president. I wondered about that. With the natural thing to have that I was urged to apply when Bob was appointed.
00;13;50;29 - 00;14;08;00
Unknown
I was urged to apply when he never applied. I never thought I was invited. I was nominated as an applicant. I declined twice by because, well.
00;14;08;02 - 00;14;15;13
Unknown
The job of the president had changed so much.
00;14;15;15 - 00;14;49;00
Unknown
I was a good number two. I, I think you were obviously. That's why I think. I for one expected that you would take the next step. I but I wouldn't have been a good number one. I am not a mover and shaker of powers. I'm great with the legislature. I really had no trouble, with being actually cross-examined by committee members because I knew them.
00;14;49;02 - 00;15;22;05
Unknown
I had gone represented, so many organizations at the legislature, but I wouldn't have been good in the fundraising ballyhoo when that is what has become so much of the job now. Yeah. And it's not my cup of tea. Jim Rhodes told me last week. He said that he's under orders from the board to spend at least 40% of his time doing nothing but raising money.
00;15;22;08 - 00;15;47;19
Unknown
Yeah. So my answer was, oh, you could have that job. Yeah. Yeah, I could see how, you know, I, I feel for them. Yeah. And I know I couldn't have done a good job and so. Did you really think that one out was that. Oh, yeah. I really thought it out. And,
00;15;47;21 - 00;16;27;03
Unknown
I was delighted when I was made to see the thing. Oh. Maybe not. That person came from California, and one of our former faculty members who became dean at, Nevada University of Reno. Brother was operations president employed on that. So I had a phone call. Was I applying? The phone call came from the president of California.
00;16;27;04 - 00;16;58;14
Unknown
Oh, oh, I know. Yeah. And I said no. And, And then he said, well, then a member of my staff is going to get if you apply. Had applied. That's true. Yeah. Well, all the calls have a real good time. So Bob came, to the campus, and of course, I met him and the the interviewing and search stage.
00;16;58;17 - 00;17;34;19
Unknown
But he came up to the campus knowing something about me, all right? Because his boss was proud of what? So that's what he gave me. The job. That really was the way to life. Yeah. Well, at that, there was a search on that job. Was it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Ruth, Ruth had hired, Gil Teal and Gil Teal left shortly after.
00;17;34;21 - 00;18;05;07
Unknown
He'd love to cause something. He was afraid something was going to happen to the state pension in relation to his army pension. And if he didn't get off by such and such a, he would lose the key. But it didn't work out that that would have happened. But he left shortly after. Paul? Okay. And, that's that's when the search that you were chosen.
00;18;05;08 - 00;18;24;18
Unknown
Him and you were vice president until until I ran through Bob. Well, no, Feldman had been there only a year. I reca I don't want this. I'm going to take it off. You got me, though.
00;18;24;20 - 00;19;06;18
Unknown
Because I think I don't want to forget that. That the. And know Bob Burson developed all of the contacts with, I did with Mr. Ansell. Okay. The that we hired Steve as dean, but during the time that the. And so dad was formed, well cultivated. So, Steve was the first lead of the Ansell school.
00;19;06;20 - 00;19;40;19
Unknown
John Raglan had been the chairman of the department before the school was created. Another question that, someone who's moved to schools during Bob Percy's tenure. Oh, yes. I remember that. I do remember that. We need to go over all of that generally with one Dr. John Public schools. You know, he when we were given of authority to have a business program, we hired him.
00;19;40;21 - 00;20;08;23
Unknown
Okay. As he really, developed the I can't I was doing I know Bob or Jim. Peg, a lot of you asked me the other day said, you know, John is someone you should talk to. And he said, I don't remember. He thought of them in terms of the library because all of this was there after, he did a lot of things.
00;20;08;26 - 00;20;42;25
Unknown
I was during the period that I was vice president. He was reassigned to handle a lot of the, the library troubleshooter. Yes, that's what I thought. He had the audio visual, all the service areas. He took over as a manager. Okay. All right. That's what I thought was the case. Yeah. That's it. Did you.
00;20;42;27 - 00;20;44;00
Unknown
Did you see the obituaries? - Identifier
- ms012_07_11-12
- Item sets
- Herb Janick Papers, MS012
“Gertrude Braun Interview.”, Digital Archival Objects at WestConn, accessed June 16, 2026, https://archives.library.wcsu.edu/omeka-s/s/digital/item/24625